Hertz selling 1/3 of its EV fleet

Old Jan 18, 2024, 9:11 am
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Firstboss
Regarding annoyance of waiting at the charge stations, maybe a better solution to fast charging would have been battery replacement at service stations, just like they did with horses 150 years ago. After all, our civilization doesn't invent new concepts, just repeats the old ones at a new technology iteration. For that, batteries must be standardized, and swapping engineered to take 2-3 minutes at most.
In China "QBEX" (quick battery exchange) was embraced by the Chinese government years ago, and several Chinese EV companies developed QBEX machines following the encouragement of the government. Can't say it has been wildly embraced by the people there or ride share companies to whom it was thought would be the adapters...
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Old Jan 18, 2024, 9:35 am
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Originally Posted by Firstboss
Regarding annoyance of waiting at the charge stations, maybe a better solution to fast charging would have been battery replacement at service stations, just like they did with horses 150 years ago. After all, our civilization doesn't invent new concepts, just repeats the old ones at a new technology iteration. For that, batteries must be standardized, and swapping engineered to take 2-3 minutes at most.
Tesla looked into that idea and abandoned it. There are such systems in China and, Europe, but they are not widely deployed.

If all you do is road trips, or you can't charge at home, it has some practicality. The system, in the video below, works with a battery subscription so you aren't giving away your nice, new, expensive battery for an old one when you swap. That wouldn't work well for the majority of US EV owners who charge at home. It may be a better fit in markets like China where high-density housing is the norm.

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Old Jan 18, 2024, 11:24 am
  #48  
 
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In any urban environment with apartment building you can't charge an EV in the privacy of you garage. And that's the mode of living for most people who can afford to have a car on this overpopulated planet. The American market is different, but even then NYC, SF, Boston, and Chicago have very different housing situation from the rest of the country that does not accommodate charging at home.
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Old Jan 18, 2024, 11:56 am
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Originally Posted by Firstboss
- Used EV's require battery replacement which makes buying them too expensive to consider by customers who have a 10-15K limit of a car price.
Not exactly, other ev manufacturer is still too new to make this conclusion, however plenty of old tesla S on the market to make this conclusion, at least on Tesla. Most of them has no battery issue at 100-200k miles, degradation is not as bad as expected. The one which need battery replacement was the one used for heavy duty (uber) with multiple fast charging in a day. I'll say if battery is still good at 100-200k miles, it's most likely the car is out of commission for other reason (accident etc) than battery issue.
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Old Jan 18, 2024, 6:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Firstboss
maybe a better solution to fast charging would have been battery replacement at service stations, just like they did with horses 150 years ago.
It is completely impractical and high risk. Not only it require complete redisign of the exising EV and manufacturing process, but carries a high risk as well.

How do you know that $10K replacment part is good enough and not trashed to oblivion? And another practality side - it makes zero practical sense to replace a part costing $10K (hypotetical battery with 100Kwh capacity) when the charge price is $45 (per $0.45/kwh electricity price).
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Last edited by invisible; Jan 18, 2024 at 6:40 pm
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Old Jan 19, 2024, 4:11 am
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Originally Posted by invisible
It is completely impractical and high risk. Not only it require complete redisign of the exising EV and manufacturing process, but carries a high risk as well..
Though they already do this in Asia and Europe.
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Old Jan 19, 2024, 8:16 am
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Originally Posted by invisible
How do you know that $10K replacment part is good enough and not trashed to oblivion? And another practality side - it makes zero practical sense to replace a part costing $10K (hypotetical battery with 100Kwh capacity) when the charge price is $45 (per $0.45/kwh electricity price).
At least with the system in the video I posted, the car owner does not own the battery. They subscribe to the battery service and swap it out instead of charging.

For most US EV owners, such a system completely misses the point. That is not how we use our cars and would not be a benefit to us. China, and parts of Europe, are very different. I would think most of those in the US proposing such a system have never driven an EV as it sounds very appealing to people who know only the gas station refueling model.

I think Hertz' EV model has the same problem. The requirement to return the car with the same SoC as when it was rented is following the gas station model for rental refueling. It only costs a few dollars to charge an EV when you're paying electric rates. The top-up should be included in the rental and should be done on the rental lot between rentals.

Last edited by LarryJ; Jan 19, 2024 at 8:23 am
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Old Jan 19, 2024, 1:02 pm
  #53  
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
.........It only costs a few dollars to charge an EV when you're paying electric rates.....
The issue is not the costs of electricity but the time required to recharge. Either the customers need to find time to recharge before return or Hertz needs to allow more time to turnover the EV for next rental. I noticed most Hertz EV chargers are Level 2 chargers. I actually have not seen any CHAdeMO, CCS or Superchargers at Hertz lots although they could be hidden out of sight.
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Old Jan 19, 2024, 1:39 pm
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Originally Posted by TerryK
The issue is not the costs of electricity but the time required to recharge. Either the customers need to find time to recharge before return or Hertz needs to allow more time to turnover the EV for next rental. I noticed most Hertz EV chargers are Level 2 chargers. I actually have not seen any CHAdeMO, CCS or Superchargers at Hertz lots although they could be hidden out of sight.
What is the normal cycle time for a rental return?
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Old Jan 19, 2024, 2:13 pm
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Firstboss
just like they did with horses 150 years ago.
Wait....what?

There were horse subscription services? Or you'd just rapidly sell your tired horse and buy a rested one, leaving the "station" owner to rest, water, and refuel the old horse?

I'm genuinely curious how this worked. There's probably an Internet rabbithole somewhere for me...
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Old Jan 19, 2024, 5:19 pm
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Originally Posted by Taikucing
From your own linked survey

EY research: Nearly half of US car buyers intend to purchase an electric vehicle; charging and safety concerns weigh on consumers

  • Of the US consumers planning on purchasing a new vehicle in the next 24 months, nearly half (48%) intend to purchase an EV which is up 19% from 29% in the 2022 EY MCI.
  • Despite purchase intent gains, a majority (57%) of US car buyers cite the danger of home charging as a key deterrent.
  • The majority of EV owners (81%) are likely to consider repurchasing an EV again compared with traditional vehicle owners (42%).
  • The EY Mobility Consumer Index ranks the US No. 7 globally in terms of EV readiness.



Hmm doom n gloom indeed. What a joke.
It appears you did not read the survey nor did you read my summary of it. Only 22% said they would consider an EV, including those who already own one.
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Old Jan 20, 2024, 1:33 am
  #57  
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
What is the normal cycle time for a rental return?
I don't know what the normal cycle time is. I have experienced when cars were taken to car wash then straight to next customer. It was like 15 minutes minimum cycle time. Level 2 charger can take 10 hours to charge up from 20%.
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Old Jan 20, 2024, 5:51 am
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Originally Posted by m907
It appears you did not read the survey nor did you read my summary of it. Only 22% said they would consider an EV, including those who already own one.
Nope, that's just you stretching your argument to present ev on the decline when the graphics says otherwise. What a joke indeed.

Next time when you post, start by saying 'I am an EV rejecter and here's why'. It will save a lot of time instead of stretching an article to fit your view.
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Old Jan 20, 2024, 9:23 am
  #59  
 
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Originally Posted by invisible
It is completely impractical and high risk. Not only it require complete redisign of the exising EV and manufacturing process, but carries a high risk as well.

How do you know that $10K replacment part is good enough and not trashed to oblivion? And another practality side - it makes zero practical sense to replace a part costing $10K (hypotetical battery with 100Kwh capacity) when the charge price is $45 (per $0.45/kwh electricity price).
Think of it differently: you don’t replace it once in a while, but almost every time instead of charging. You don’t even buy or own a battery: you pay to use it.
As for quality / capacity, the service provider can easily diagnose every battery automatically and take it out of circulation as soon as it fails the test.
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Old Jan 20, 2024, 12:22 pm
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I'd pretty much always rather rent an EV and I generally am able to. I don't mind the charging issues - I have an EV so I'm decently familiar with the process and can make it work when on a trip.

I go to Maui frequently, and I'm fairly sure that Hertz has removed all Teslas from this station. Avis still has them. Hertz does still have the Bolt.

IMO, Hertz and Tesla could have tailored the experience to be easier for renters with two tweaks to Teslas destined for the rental market:

1 - Give renters a clicker. Having to swipe that card in exactly the right place, only on one side of the car and only after all doors are shut is a real pain. Give us a simple clicker with a proximity sensor so I can keep the key in my pocket. I'm always out of the car and walking away before my wife is out, but then I have to double back, and start wiping up and down the B column trying to hit the sweet spot. Clicker. Proven tech. Been around for 20+ years.

2 - CarPlay / AndroidAuto. Yes, Elon, we know you hate CarPlay. But guess what? Renters want it. Renters don't want to learn how your nav/music/podcasts work. We want to plug in and go. So pathetic that any rental car doesn't make this easy.

Oh - and the Bolt checks both boxes. I know it's nothing like a Tesla though.

Anyway, that's my rant.

One final note: when your hotel charges your rental for you overnight - amazing. Saves time and money. No gas smell on my hands and no extra time to build in on the way to the airport.
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