Hertz selling 1/3 of its EV fleet

Old Jan 15, 2024, 7:50 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by pfreet
Wouldn't a plug in hybrid make more sense in a rental car fleet? Buy a bunch of Hyundai Ioniq's?
Imho regular hybrid makes more sense than plug in hybrid for rental car. Recently, I was renting a minivan for family trip around CA, the choice was pacifica plug in vs ice pacifica. I chose the latter. I dont have the place to plug in the pacifica every night. Some hotel does provide them, maybe I should choose the plug-in, however the savings in gas not worth the headache to look for plug in everynight. Ymmv.

Last edited by Taikucing; Jan 15, 2024 at 7:59 am
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Old Jan 15, 2024, 11:53 am
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by LarryJ

If you don't want an EV then don't buy one. They don't have to be for everybody. I've never owned a pickup truck and I've never posted on a thread about pickup trucks to tell truck owners why they shouldn't want them.

You are one of sane one. Unfortunately not the case for most EV owners that resemble a cult following - if you read comments on Ars Technica, Clear Technica, Wired, WP, NYT you will know what truck owners buy them to compensate their small genitals, to kill innocent bystanders and small car owners, to kill climate and future generations and due to all the above and other things every single truck owner needs to be taxed by 100% of truck's purchase price.

Originally Posted by pfreet
Wouldn't a plug in hybrid make more sense in a rental car fleet? Buy a bunch of Hyundai Ioniq's?
PHEV ended up having least reliable score according to Consumer Reports

Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) are more of a mixed bag. As a category, they have 146 percent more problems than ICE vehicles. Several PHEVs are even less reliable than their conventional counterparts, such as the below-average Audi Q5 and Chrysler Pacifica.
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Last edited by invisible; Jan 15, 2024 at 12:01 pm
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Old Jan 15, 2024, 12:16 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by invisible
You are one of sane one. Unfortunately not the case for most EV owners that resemble a cult following
My experience, talking to other actual EV owners, is exactly the opposite.
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Old Jan 15, 2024, 1:17 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
My experience, talking to other actual EV owners, is exactly the opposite.
Probably, to be precise, it would be - 'people who own EVs and make comments on articles and social media'. Like 80/20 or 95/4/1 rule, majority of EV owners should be normal people.
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Old Jan 15, 2024, 1:33 pm
  #35  
 
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Interestingly enough, and to be on subject, I can provide my own use case/situation here. It will be a rather long post.

I would consider my own case is rather exceptional and outside of normal distribution. We live in highlands of Sierra Nevada, on elevation of 6500ft, close to NV/CA border. We both work from home and drive only maximum once per week/10 days when we go to get groceries and run errands. We have just one car (see below), our weekly mileage is like 50-60 miles max, no more than 4000 miles per year. 3-4 times per year we drive to Bay Area - for this we rent a car at Hertz, usually for round-trip, and at HLE/HLE pickup/dropoff locations to save on taxes/fees.

Now, one would say that we are prime candidates for EV ownership with our car usage pattern and it would be correct without knowing the details. Details are following - we live 2 miles in on a dirt road and right now is 1ft of snow outside. You must have high clearance awd/4x4 vehicle, otherwise you won't get home after snowfall even when roads are plowed. Couple of times in last 10 years National Guard needed to be called to get people in and out of their houses after snow storms.

Last year winter was exceptional: we got 3x of average winter snowfall, combined with major power outage (which is BTW, our only connection to the grid - water comes from a well and there is 1000 gal propane tank outside). Power went off on 31st of Dec and only got restored on Jan 3rd. Local HOA snow plows got stuck in snow and only huge yellow CAT tractor got them unstuck and then plowed roads, but it took two days...

So given all above the only EV I would consider to be applicable in my use case would be either Cybertruck, F-150 Lightning or Rivian. However I have zero desire to spend more than $10k on car - I only bought used cars in the last >25 years and won't going to change this approach.

We have 2005 Range Rover HSE, which we bought for $7000 in 2021 and then spent another $6500 to bring it to good condition. Yes, it has 14mpg and we are spending $100/mo on gas. Yes, we spend about $1000 on yearly car rentals for trips, yes, monthly insurance is about $120 and we probably need to spend another $800 yearly on maintenance/repairs. But it works for our use case perfectly - it can drive anywhere, especially with 20" wheels, Nokian off road tires and 11" clearance. Oh yes - last year I helped with this truck to have three cars unstuck from ditch - their California owners did not really check in advance where they were coming...

If there is an used EV that has minimum 10" of clearance, AWD, >=20" wheels, heated seats and steering wheel, hill descent control with snow/sand/off-road driving modes, can tow >3000lb, and as well as costs less than $15K - I will buy it.
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Old Jan 15, 2024, 3:52 pm
  #36  
 
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Hertz hybrid rentals are a hindrance to reasonable travel. Their requirement to return the vehicle at 75 percent charge or face a charging fee was a hassle. In four days of renting a Tesla 3 for driving about 350 miles round trip, I found myself having to make four different recharge stops. A real time suck. For renters of electric vehicles that are not Teslas, the availability of charging stations can be hit or miss.
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Old Jan 15, 2024, 10:14 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by Taikucing
Lol, you dont have ev n making up excuses to make u look good, yet it sounds stupid for us who actually owned ev.

...
​​​​Again, there seems to be an inability or refusal on the part of EV apologists to imagine that people live under different circumstances than them. I live in a blue-collar small town where there aren't any public chargers for 30 miles in any direction. Some people around here really do drive 200 miles per day for work. Even those who don't often have families to transport and can't sit around and wait for hours for a charger. EVs are not for everyone, and the data show it.

Originally Posted by LarryJ
If you don't want an EV then don't buy one. They don't have to be for everybody. I've never owned a pickup truck and I've never posted on a thread about pickup trucks to tell truck owners why they shouldn't want them.
This is a thread about how the first rental company to plunge headfirst into the EV market has had to pull back after less than two years because so few people want them. I didn't come in here saying that EV owners shouldn't want them. I came in here to say that if Hertz had car guys running the company instead of finance guys, they would have known that most renters don't want EVs. Then I made a speculative comment about what this news means for the rest of the EV market. Somehow speculation is not acceptable for EV apologists, who rely on nothing but speculation and wishful thinking.
​​​​​​​
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Last edited by m907; Jan 15, 2024 at 10:20 pm
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Old Jan 16, 2024, 9:09 am
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by m907
​​​​Again, there seems to be an inability or refusal on the part of EV apologists to imagine that people live under different circumstances than them. I live in a blue-collar small town where there aren't any public chargers for 30 miles in any direction. Some people around here really do drive 200 miles per day for work. Even those who don't often have families to transport and can't sit around and wait for hours for a charger. EVs are not for everyone, and the data show it.
Dude, we get it, you don't like ev and making up excuses to poo poo them. EV is not for you. Done. The inability to learn is you, not me. I had ice car, hybrid car and EV. I know the difference between all 3 of them and understand how each one fits my driving pattern.

For those who actually want to learn about ev, M907 example for people who need to drive 200 miles per day for work is the perfect case for EV since you will earn the maximum benefit of EV saving in your gas expense alone. Here are the 2 conditions for those:

1. Having access to home charger and be able to charge it every night.
2. Get an ev with at least 260-300 miles range (Ioniq 5, Ioniq 6, EV5, Tesla 3 & Y long range) so you have enough buffer for your 200 miles need.

and

3. if your work provides ev charger, you don't even need option 2, you can easily get car with min 200 range and charge it at your work before you go home.


When you have home charger, you will unlikely need public charger unless you need to do a long trip more than the range of your EV.
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Old Jan 16, 2024, 9:10 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by m907
​​​​
This is a thread about how the first rental company to plunge headfirst into the EV market has had to pull back after less than two years because so few people want them. I didn't come in here saying that EV owners shouldn't want them. I came in here to say that if Hertz had car guys running the company instead of finance guys, they would have known that most renters don't want EVs. Then I made a speculative comment about what this news means for the rest of the EV market. Somehow speculation is not acceptable for EV apologists, who rely on nothing but speculation and wishful thinking.
Because your speculation is out of the mark. Just because ev is a bad fit for renter, it doesn't mean it's a bad fit for everyone. OTOH, if people actually take the time to learn their driving need and has the ability to take some changes, they will easily find how ev fits their need.

Last edited by Taikucing; Jan 16, 2024 at 9:17 am
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Old Jan 16, 2024, 9:14 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by invisible
We have 2005 Range Rover HSE, which we bought for $7000 in 2021 and then spent another $6500 to bring it to good condition. Yes, it has 14mpg and we are spending $100/mo on gas. Yes, we spend about $1000 on yearly car rentals for trips, yes, monthly insurance is about $120 and we probably need to spend another $800 yearly on maintenance/repairs. But it works for our use case perfectly - it can drive anywhere, especially with 20" wheels, Nokian off road tires and 11" clearance. Oh yes - last year I helped with this truck to have three cars unstuck from ditch - their California owners did not really check in advance where they were coming...

If there is an used EV that has minimum 10" of clearance, AWD, >=20" wheels, heated seats and steering wheel, hill descent control with snow/sand/off-road driving modes, can tow >3000lb, and as well as costs less than $15K - I will buy it.
So you got 2005 range rover which you bought in 2021 for $7k. In 2040, with the current ev depreciation, you should see plenty ev truck in $7k - 13.5k range. Whether that will fit your need, you should be able to judge by then. If it doesn't fit your need, that's fine as well, EV doesn't fit everyone's.
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Old Jan 16, 2024, 4:52 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by Taikucing
Because your speculation is out of the mark. Just because ev is a bad fit for renter, it doesn't mean it's a bad fit for everyone. OTOH, if people actually take the time to learn their driving need and has the ability to take some changes, they will easily find how ev fits their need.
​​​​​You may think that, but the numbers show that all but a sliver of the population disagrees, according to this heavily spun survey. Even a firm which has a vested interest in pushing EVs could only get 22% of people to say they are considering a fully electric vehicle. And I'm sure if they published the crosstabs and eliminated current EV owners, the percentage would be far less.

Last edited by m907; Jan 16, 2024 at 5:00 pm
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Old Jan 16, 2024, 5:42 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by m907
​​​​​You may think that, but the numbers show that all but a sliver of the population disagrees, according to this heavily spun survey. Even a firm which has a vested interest in pushing EVs could only get 22% of people to say they are considering a fully electric vehicle. And I'm sure if they published the crosstabs and eliminated current EV owners, the percentage would be far less.
From your own linked survey

EY research: Nearly half of US car buyers intend to purchase an electric vehicle; charging and safety concerns weigh on consumers

  • Of the US consumers planning on purchasing a new vehicle in the next 24 months, nearly half (48%) intend to purchase an EV which is up 19% from 29% in the 2022 EY MCI.
  • Despite purchase intent gains, a majority (57%) of US car buyers cite the danger of home charging as a key deterrent.
  • The majority of EV owners (81%) are likely to consider repurchasing an EV again compared with traditional vehicle owners (42%).
  • The EY Mobility Consumer Index ranks the US No. 7 globally in terms of EV readiness.



Hmm doom n gloom indeed. What a joke.
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Old Jan 16, 2024, 7:31 pm
  #43  
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Originally Posted by MASTERNC
WSJ wrote about this in September, and it wasn't just Hertz. Rental agencies have been assigning EVs to renters who didn't request one (either because of the "manager's special" or because that's all they had) and then the renter runs into issues because of inexperience or because of how they planned to use the vehicle.

WSJ - The Paradox of EV Car Rentals
Happened to my former neighbour. Last ICE rental vehicle went out 2 renters before them. Trying to get from somewhere in NY to rural CT with no idea where to recharge.
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Old Jan 17, 2024, 1:32 pm
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by Taikucing
So you got 2005 range rover which you bought in 2021 for $7k. In 2040, with the current ev depreciation, you should see plenty ev truck in $7k - 13.5k range. Whether that will fit your need, you should be able to judge by then. If it doesn't fit your need, that's fine as well, EV doesn't fit everyone's.
Completely agree - more people buy >$80K EV trucks, more they will be available in market as used 5-10-15 years from now.

So please buy expensive EV trucks so I can have them in future.
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Old Jan 18, 2024, 8:54 am
  #45  
 
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I'll add a few thoughts to many interesting points made in this thread.

It was a poor business decision by the post-bankruptcy Hertz management team to invest in such a big fleet of EV's. Decision like that is made by dreamers whose main contribution to the society is production of power point slides, mostly working remotely, with naive dreams about the society from which they are largely disconnected. EV's would be a nice offering by Hertz as a niche category, with increase of the fleet when both consumer acceptance and infrastructure become more solid in the US market.

Ownership of EV's is a different story.

I would add these extra arguments the positive side:

- Significantly lower maintenance expenses then a fuel-powered engine requires.
- Performance driving: Due to lower center of mass, handling of the EV car in cornering opens up better possibilities. ICE car manufacturers need to play engineering tricks with weight distribution to compensate for the heavy and high-placed engine. A heavy battery close to the ground is a game changer.

Negative side:
- Performance driving: if one takes a pleasure in efficient driving as opposed to boring commute (in other words, car handling is more important than blue-tooth connection and driver assisting spam on the control panel), then the mileage range becomes impractical.
- Used EV's require battery replacement which makes buying them too expensive to consider by customers who have a 10-15K limit of a car price.

Regarding annoyance of waiting at the charge stations, maybe a better solution to fast charging would have been battery replacement at service stations, just like they did with horses 150 years ago. After all, our civilization doesn't invent new concepts, just repeats the old ones at a new technology iteration. For that, batteries must be standardized, and swapping engineered to take 2-3 minutes at most.

Finally, among the alternatives to Tesla everyone missed BMW's. Their i4 model is a very interesting way to avoid Tesla.
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