Sep 5, 2020, 8:37 pm
Last edit by: seawolf
AMEX/MasterCard/VISA rules in regards to charging cardmember for damages
VISA Core Rules
MasterCard Transaction Processing Rules
American Express Merchant Operating Guide (US)
VISA Core Rules
5.9.8.4 - Rental Merchant Charges for Damages – Europe Region
In the Europe Region: When a rental Merchant carries out a delayed charge Transaction for charges relating to damage to a rental vehicle, the Merchant must provide the Acquirer with all of the
following:
In the Europe Region: When a rental Merchant carries out a delayed charge Transaction for charges relating to damage to a rental vehicle, the Merchant must provide the Acquirer with all of the
following:
- A copy of the rental agreement
- An estimate of the cost of the damage from an organization that can legally provide repairs
- The relevant civil authority’s accident report (if applicable)
- Documentation showing that the Cardholder has given consent that a delayed charge Transaction may be processed using the Cardholder’s Card to cover damages to a rental vehicle. This consent must be evidenced by either:
- The Cardholder’s signature on the same page as, and close to, the description of the charges that may be covered by the delayed charge Transaction
- The Cardholder’s signature on the agreement and the Cardholder’s initials on each page of the agreement, including on the same page as the description of the charges that may be covered by the delayed charge Transaction
3.12 Charges for Loss, Theft, or Damage—Mastercard POS Transactions Only
A charge for loss, theft, or damage must be processed as a separate Transaction from the underlying rental, lodging, or other Transaction. The Merchant must provide a reason for the charge and a reasonable estimate of the cost of repairs to the Cardholder. After gaining the Cardholder’s authorization of the charge and the estimated cost, the Merchant must process the Transaction as one of the following:
A charge for loss, theft, or damage must be processed as a separate Transaction from the underlying rental, lodging, or other Transaction. The Merchant must provide a reason for the charge and a reasonable estimate of the cost of repairs to the Cardholder. After gaining the Cardholder’s authorization of the charge and the estimated cost, the Merchant must process the Transaction as one of the following:
- A Card-present Transaction. For CVM requirements, see Rule 3.4.
- A fully authenticated SecureCode or Identity Check e-commerce Transaction
American Express Merchant Operating Guide (US)
12.14.2.4 Capital Damages
If a Cardmember voluntarily opts to use the Card to pay for property damage to a rented vehicle (Capital Damages), you may accept the Card, provided you have complied with all of the
following conditions for payments of such items:
If a Cardmember voluntarily opts to use the Card to pay for property damage to a rented vehicle (Capital Damages), you may accept the Card, provided you have complied with all of the
following conditions for payments of such items:
- The Card was used for the vehicle rental at the time the vehicle was checked out.
- You must provide in writing, to the Cardmember, an itemized list and description of specific damages which have occurred.
- Prior to submitting a Charge, you must obtain the Cardmember's agreement in writing* to:
- Accept responsibility for the Capital Damages, and
- Select American Express as the payment method for the Capital Damages, and
- Accept the total estimated amount for which the Cardmember may be responsible, and that the final billed amount can be up to 15% more than the estimated amount. No amounts in excess of 115% of the disclosed amount shall be charged to the Cardmember's Card, without the express prior written consent of the Cardmember
Hertz Germany car rental 'damages' scam
Nov 19, 2015, 7:40 am
#61
Join Date: Jun 2013
Programs: DL Plat, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, Hertz Prez Circle, National Exec
Posts: 1,357
Which still takes time and effort for something that should be a simple phone call to Hertz. Well, really something that never should have been charged in the first place. So Hertz Germany is in this case continuing to run their scam and Hertz US is allowing them to do so by playing the "not us" card. They're happy to allow usage of the Hertz name elsewhere but aren't willing to stand behind it.
Nov 28, 2015, 6:35 pm
#62
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3
I wound up getting a Berlin lawyer to challenge the Hertz damage claim from Berlin -Europacenter. I am waiting for their reply after nearly 4 weeks. They used photos mostly from another car that really was damaged but the lawyer showed that the actually rented car had a brand new front tire that Hertz agreed to because of a weakness in the wheel. The "evidence" they showed had a car with a heavily worn front tire and the front of the car also had a piece of metal that was not in the rented car. That is pure fraud!
Feb 15, 2016, 7:52 am
#63
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1
Seems that this is a running trend. Happened to me this month in the Esslingen location near Stuttgart, Germany. No communication whatsoever, then bam - USD $1100+ on my credit card statement. Filing the dispute with my credit card - same as others here.
I plan on writing a formal letter to Hertz corporate on the issue, and I hope some others do the same. They seem to target international folks, and it seems they play the numbers game that some people either won't notice or insurance will cover.
I haven't had this issue in the US with Hertz. But I will certainly not do business with them anywhere in the world if they are willing to put their brand name behind the practices done in Germany.
I plan on writing a formal letter to Hertz corporate on the issue, and I hope some others do the same. They seem to target international folks, and it seems they play the numbers game that some people either won't notice or insurance will cover.
I haven't had this issue in the US with Hertz. But I will certainly not do business with them anywhere in the world if they are willing to put their brand name behind the practices done in Germany.
Mar 2, 2016, 4:01 am
#64
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1
Unfair DNR from Hertz Germany
Did you get any resolution on this? I have a similar issue with Hertz Germany placing DNR on my account due to a claim and despite multiple follow ups from my insurance company they refuse to respond!
Last edited by Rut Dog; Mar 2, 2016 at 5:05 pm Reason: Overquote
Mar 3, 2016, 12:43 am
#65
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London
Posts: 1,546
They will never respond to your insurer. The contract is between you and Hertz, and EU data protection rules stop them discussing details with an unrelated third party. They have no relationship to your insurer - you need to reclaim any costs direct from your insurer.
This happens for all rental companies across Europe - they'll never talk to a third party insurer.
This happens for all rental companies across Europe - they'll never talk to a third party insurer.
Mar 6, 2016, 6:51 pm
#66
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 184
The same thing happened to me, but this time was in Hertz Los Angeles.
The thing is that they want to blame me for causing the scratch a day after I returned the car to them, where it states that there was no damage to it.
And they want me to fill a VIR and disclose that I did not commit any damage. But by filling a VIR I am already stating that a damage has been done.
Lol
The thing is that they want to blame me for causing the scratch a day after I returned the car to them, where it states that there was no damage to it.
And they want me to fill a VIR and disclose that I did not commit any damage. But by filling a VIR I am already stating that a damage has been done.
Lol
Mar 9, 2016, 2:58 pm
#67
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,736
They will never respond to your insurer. The contract is between you and Hertz, and EU data protection rules stop them discussing details with an unrelated third party. They have no relationship to your insurer - you need to reclaim any costs direct from your insurer.
This happens for all rental companies across Europe - they'll never talk to a third party insurer.
This happens for all rental companies across Europe - they'll never talk to a third party insurer.
Mar 9, 2016, 3:49 pm
#68
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,548
There is no reason for it to want to deal with the 3rd party - it has charged you and then it is up to you to arrange recompense from the insurer if you can do so
You need to contact the company and detail the items that you need and then, once received, you can pass them on to the insurer
If it is refusing to provide the details to you ( e.g. the final repair invoice ), then that is another matter
May 9, 2016, 11:57 am
#69
Join Date: Jun 2013
Programs: Delta DDM 720, SPG Unobtainium, CC Adamantium, can I keep bragging now?
Posts: 306
Just reviving this old thread with another warning about Hertz in Germany (MUC).
Just had a similar thing happen - they tried to bill me a couple hundred Euros for about a 0.5" scratch near a wheel well.
I'm 99% sure this is simply because I declined all their coverage and they weren't happy about it.
Reversing the charge with Amex and telling them to pound sand as the damage was already there. I've never seen a car rental company that expects you to document scratches that tiny. Can you imagine how long it'd take to fill out the paperwork if you had to document every teeny tiny chip/scratch that small?
Just had a similar thing happen - they tried to bill me a couple hundred Euros for about a 0.5" scratch near a wheel well.
I'm 99% sure this is simply because I declined all their coverage and they weren't happy about it.
Reversing the charge with Amex and telling them to pound sand as the damage was already there. I've never seen a car rental company that expects you to document scratches that tiny. Can you imagine how long it'd take to fill out the paperwork if you had to document every teeny tiny chip/scratch that small?
May 9, 2016, 12:17 pm
#70
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,736
Just reviving this old thread with another warning about Hertz in Germany (MUC).
Just had a similar thing happen - they tried to bill me a couple hundred Euros for about a 0.5" scratch near a wheel well.
I'm 99% sure this is simply because I declined all their coverage and they weren't happy about it.
Reversing the charge with Amex and telling them to pound sand as the damage was already there. I've never seen a car rental company that expects you to document scratches that tiny.
Just had a similar thing happen - they tried to bill me a couple hundred Euros for about a 0.5" scratch near a wheel well.
I'm 99% sure this is simply because I declined all their coverage and they weren't happy about it.
Reversing the charge with Amex and telling them to pound sand as the damage was already there. I've never seen a car rental company that expects you to document scratches that tiny.
May 9, 2016, 3:23 pm
#71
Join Date: Jun 2013
Programs: Delta DDM 720, SPG Unobtainium, CC Adamantium, can I keep bragging now?
Posts: 306
I should also mention the fact that they pre-charged a 200 Euro 'deposit' and then, of course, they found damages that added up to exactly that. Smells like a scam.
May 9, 2016, 3:40 pm
#72
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,736
Nope, it was my first time in Germany, though my story seems pretty common after doing a few searches. Looks like it is extremely common for them to try to charge people for things that are either pre-existing or would be normal wear and tear anywhere else, even if it wasn't pre-existing.
I should also mention the fact that they pre-charged a 200 Euro 'deposit' and then, of course, they found damages that added up to exactly that. Smells like a scam.
I should also mention the fact that they pre-charged a 200 Euro 'deposit' and then, of course, they found damages that added up to exactly that. Smells like a scam.
May 10, 2016, 2:14 am
#73
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London
Posts: 1,546
@HonaryOrange. Damage is never considered wear and tear in Europe - all companies in Europe charge for damage. That's why it's essential to examine the car before you accept it.
By reversing the charge you realise you're now likely to be on the 'do not rent' list?
By reversing the charge you realise you're now likely to be on the 'do not rent' list?
May 10, 2016, 9:06 am
#74
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Programs: United 1K, Hilton Diamond, National Executive Elite, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 690
Just reviving this old thread with another warning about Hertz in Germany (MUC).
Just had a similar thing happen - they tried to bill me a couple hundred Euros for about a 0.5" scratch near a wheel well.
I'm 99% sure this is simply because I declined all their coverage and they weren't happy about it.
Reversing the charge with Amex and telling them to pound sand as the damage was already there. I've never seen a car rental company that expects you to document scratches that tiny. Can you imagine how long it'd take to fill out the paperwork if you had to document every teeny tiny chip/scratch that small?
Just had a similar thing happen - they tried to bill me a couple hundred Euros for about a 0.5" scratch near a wheel well.
I'm 99% sure this is simply because I declined all their coverage and they weren't happy about it.
Reversing the charge with Amex and telling them to pound sand as the damage was already there. I've never seen a car rental company that expects you to document scratches that tiny. Can you imagine how long it'd take to fill out the paperwork if you had to document every teeny tiny chip/scratch that small?
It doesn't take long, nor much paperwork to document chips and scratched. Its a piece of paper with a drawing of a car on it. You tell them where the damage it, they mark it appropriately, sign it and stamp it...you get a copy and a copy goes in your file.
Also, there are not many scratches and chips on German rental vehicles. They hold their rentals to a high standard and therefore, you will very rarely receive a vehicle with damage other than 1 or 2 scratched...at least that has been my experience.
May 10, 2016, 9:59 am
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,906
Hertz should be documenting preexisting damage themselves rather than taking advantage of customers... This is a source of revenue for them plain and simple.
