Sep 5, 2020, 8:37 pm
Last edit by: seawolf
AMEX/MasterCard/VISA rules in regards to charging cardmember for damages
VISA Core Rules
MasterCard Transaction Processing Rules
American Express Merchant Operating Guide (US)
VISA Core Rules
5.9.8.4 - Rental Merchant Charges for Damages – Europe Region
In the Europe Region: When a rental Merchant carries out a delayed charge Transaction for charges relating to damage to a rental vehicle, the Merchant must provide the Acquirer with all of the
following:
In the Europe Region: When a rental Merchant carries out a delayed charge Transaction for charges relating to damage to a rental vehicle, the Merchant must provide the Acquirer with all of the
following:
- A copy of the rental agreement
- An estimate of the cost of the damage from an organization that can legally provide repairs
- The relevant civil authority’s accident report (if applicable)
- Documentation showing that the Cardholder has given consent that a delayed charge Transaction may be processed using the Cardholder’s Card to cover damages to a rental vehicle. This consent must be evidenced by either:
- The Cardholder’s signature on the same page as, and close to, the description of the charges that may be covered by the delayed charge Transaction
- The Cardholder’s signature on the agreement and the Cardholder’s initials on each page of the agreement, including on the same page as the description of the charges that may be covered by the delayed charge Transaction
3.12 Charges for Loss, Theft, or Damage—Mastercard POS Transactions Only
A charge for loss, theft, or damage must be processed as a separate Transaction from the underlying rental, lodging, or other Transaction. The Merchant must provide a reason for the charge and a reasonable estimate of the cost of repairs to the Cardholder. After gaining the Cardholder’s authorization of the charge and the estimated cost, the Merchant must process the Transaction as one of the following:
A charge for loss, theft, or damage must be processed as a separate Transaction from the underlying rental, lodging, or other Transaction. The Merchant must provide a reason for the charge and a reasonable estimate of the cost of repairs to the Cardholder. After gaining the Cardholder’s authorization of the charge and the estimated cost, the Merchant must process the Transaction as one of the following:
- A Card-present Transaction. For CVM requirements, see Rule 3.4.
- A fully authenticated SecureCode or Identity Check e-commerce Transaction
American Express Merchant Operating Guide (US)
12.14.2.4 Capital Damages
If a Cardmember voluntarily opts to use the Card to pay for property damage to a rented vehicle (Capital Damages), you may accept the Card, provided you have complied with all of the
following conditions for payments of such items:
If a Cardmember voluntarily opts to use the Card to pay for property damage to a rented vehicle (Capital Damages), you may accept the Card, provided you have complied with all of the
following conditions for payments of such items:
- The Card was used for the vehicle rental at the time the vehicle was checked out.
- You must provide in writing, to the Cardmember, an itemized list and description of specific damages which have occurred.
- Prior to submitting a Charge, you must obtain the Cardmember's agreement in writing* to:
- Accept responsibility for the Capital Damages, and
- Select American Express as the payment method for the Capital Damages, and
- Accept the total estimated amount for which the Cardmember may be responsible, and that the final billed amount can be up to 15% more than the estimated amount. No amounts in excess of 115% of the disclosed amount shall be charged to the Cardmember's Card, without the express prior written consent of the Cardmember
Hertz Germany car rental 'damages' scam
Jan 15, 2015, 4:00 pm
#16
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Tampa, FL & Houston, TX
Programs: Hertz PC
Posts: 174
They used to do one every rental.
Jan 16, 2015, 7:21 am
#17
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13
Hertz-Germany refuses to cooperate with insurance
I am one of the posters having problems with Hertz-Germany. I have rented from Hertz, Avis, and Budget in Europe and have never had the problems I have had with Hertz-Germany. This was the first time in 14 years of renting in Europe that anyone has pointed out minute scratches on the rims much less claimed damage requiring over 600 euros in repair. Seriously, even with photographs the scratches are nearly impossible to see.
My second significant problem is Hertz-Germany's absolute refusal to respond to any inquiries from either Amex billing or Amex rental insurance. The only documentation Amex has received is what I submitted. Hertz-Germany has refused (over 6 months now) to provide any documentation to substantiate their claim. Amex billing removed the disputed charge from my account, so now Hertz-Germany, rather than cooperate, has sent a follow-up bill to me. I sent it on to Amex insurance. Hertz-Germany is still not responding to them.
A pity Hertz-Germany has so little concern for proper business process or ethics, nor do they provide a way to handle non-German customer relations.
My second significant problem is Hertz-Germany's absolute refusal to respond to any inquiries from either Amex billing or Amex rental insurance. The only documentation Amex has received is what I submitted. Hertz-Germany has refused (over 6 months now) to provide any documentation to substantiate their claim. Amex billing removed the disputed charge from my account, so now Hertz-Germany, rather than cooperate, has sent a follow-up bill to me. I sent it on to Amex insurance. Hertz-Germany is still not responding to them.
A pity Hertz-Germany has so little concern for proper business process or ethics, nor do they provide a way to handle non-German customer relations.
Jan 16, 2015, 12:49 pm
#18
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Live: IWI; Work: DCA/Everywhere; Play: LAS/SJU/MLE
Programs: AA EXP, DL PM, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Ambassador/LTP, Nat'l Exec Elite, LEYE Gold
Posts: 6,670
Amex billing removed the disputed charge from my account, so now Hertz-Germany, rather than cooperate, has sent a follow-up bill to me. I sent it on to Amex insurance. Hertz-Germany is still not responding to them.
A pity Hertz-Germany has so little concern for proper business process or ethics, nor do they provide a way to handle non-German customer relations.
A pity Hertz-Germany has so little concern for proper business process or ethics, nor do they provide a way to handle non-German customer relations.
Jan 16, 2015, 6:24 pm
#19
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
I am one of the posters having problems with Hertz-Germany. I have rented from Hertz, Avis, and Budget in Europe and have never had the problems I have had with Hertz-Germany. This was the first time in 14 years of renting in Europe that anyone has pointed out minute scratches on the rims much less claimed damage requiring over 600 euros in repair. Seriously, even with photographs the scratches are nearly impossible to see.
My second significant problem is Hertz-Germany's absolute refusal to respond to any inquiries from either Amex billing or Amex rental insurance. The only documentation Amex has received is what I submitted. Hertz-Germany has refused (over 6 months now) to provide any documentation to substantiate their claim. Amex billing removed the disputed charge from my account, so now Hertz-Germany, rather than cooperate, has sent a follow-up bill to me. I sent it on to Amex insurance. Hertz-Germany is still not responding to them.
A pity Hertz-Germany has so little concern for proper business process or ethics, nor do they provide a way to handle non-German customer relations.
My second significant problem is Hertz-Germany's absolute refusal to respond to any inquiries from either Amex billing or Amex rental insurance. The only documentation Amex has received is what I submitted. Hertz-Germany has refused (over 6 months now) to provide any documentation to substantiate their claim. Amex billing removed the disputed charge from my account, so now Hertz-Germany, rather than cooperate, has sent a follow-up bill to me. I sent it on to Amex insurance. Hertz-Germany is still not responding to them.
A pity Hertz-Germany has so little concern for proper business process or ethics, nor do they provide a way to handle non-German customer relations.
Jan 19, 2015, 8:28 am
#20
Join Date: Jun 2013
Programs: DL Plat, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, Hertz Prez Circle, National Exec
Posts: 1,357
I've only rented from Hertz Germany once, but wow, was it eye opening when I returned that car. They went over it with a fine toothed comb and marked down every single possible thing they could find. Extremely minor scratches, miniscule bumper marks, everything. I was freaked out when I took the return sheet up to the counter and was extremely worried I was going to get charged for extremely minor normal wear and tear that mostly existed when I picked up the car. I'm used to the US where they only ding you for real damage. I asked the guys working the counter if I'd get charged for it and they said no. That was about a year ago and I haven't seen any unexplained charges hit my card. But I can totally see how this scam operates. I'm going back to Germany next year and I'm not sure whether to go with Hertz (because I'm familiar with the company) or a local rental place. Is this kind of thing just something you deal with in Germany or specific to Hertz?
Feb 22, 2015, 1:28 pm
#22
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2
Same thing going on here. Is there some sort of protection, consumer advocacy, whatever to get these kinds of claims to a third party arbitration? I'm never paying this bill and will argue until they give up or I die. Most importantly for Hertz, a 16-year relationship with a loyal and high-volume renter has ended poorly.
Our story: Rented a BMW from Frankfurt, drove it to Berlin, got hit for 1062EUR in damage claims. They are saying we created 2cm scratches on the rear bumper. What was pointed out to me were not 2cm. I took my own photos to prove they are only 4mm. They are obscured amongst a lot of raindrop stains and dirt, and you need one of those 400W light wands they use to see them. Not sure if there's a threshold of "damage" vs. "normal wear and tear" but this claim is absolutely ridiculous.
They gave me an estimate in German. Asked for a translation, told they don't have to provide it.
As we escalated our concerns to executive customer service (I'm a President's Club member) they sent us additional photos of damage of the driver and passenger door, and said we also failed to return a trunk cover. This was the first I heard of any of that. And again the photos don't actually show any physical damage.
I did not take photos before renting. Never make that mistake again, ever.
I changed my credit card number they had on file to avoid an automatic withdrawal, and have been fighting inside their "customer service" plumbing for 3 months now.
Can I take Hertz to arbitration? Am I fighting with Hertz? Hertz Germany? Hertz Holding?
Our story: Rented a BMW from Frankfurt, drove it to Berlin, got hit for 1062EUR in damage claims. They are saying we created 2cm scratches on the rear bumper. What was pointed out to me were not 2cm. I took my own photos to prove they are only 4mm. They are obscured amongst a lot of raindrop stains and dirt, and you need one of those 400W light wands they use to see them. Not sure if there's a threshold of "damage" vs. "normal wear and tear" but this claim is absolutely ridiculous.
They gave me an estimate in German. Asked for a translation, told they don't have to provide it.
As we escalated our concerns to executive customer service (I'm a President's Club member) they sent us additional photos of damage of the driver and passenger door, and said we also failed to return a trunk cover. This was the first I heard of any of that. And again the photos don't actually show any physical damage.
I did not take photos before renting. Never make that mistake again, ever.
I changed my credit card number they had on file to avoid an automatic withdrawal, and have been fighting inside their "customer service" plumbing for 3 months now.
Can I take Hertz to arbitration? Am I fighting with Hertz? Hertz Germany? Hertz Holding?
Feb 23, 2015, 1:17 am
#24
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London
Posts: 1,546
@Mentelligence. If you hired at Frankfurt, your contract is under German law.
Obviously, if you are an important customer in your home market, you can ask them to intervene / arbitrate, but the legal process (if it gets to that) is under German law.
Obviously, if you are an important customer in your home market, you can ask them to intervene / arbitrate, but the legal process (if it gets to that) is under German law.
Feb 23, 2015, 2:28 am
#25
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Programs: Bonvoy Gold, AA Plat, Volare Premier, VS Silver, National Emerald Elite, Hertz President Circle
Posts: 2,526
Feb 24, 2015, 4:20 am
#26
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 3
We are heading to Munich in mid May to pick up a BMW 3 series Auto with GPS, i have applied the AMEX Platinum discount 15% incl. CDW and TP for 10 days total 612 EUR. Do you all agree the Hertz Scam is mainly to sell their super cover for 174 EUR more. We will be driving to Salzburg and Innsbruck in Austria then enroute to Zurich, Interlaken, Geneva and back to Frankfurt-Stuttgart and finally back to Munich.
With these scam practice, i think i should add the super cover... In Australia, Hertz is generally very good, but sure there will be a lot of bad drivers with lots of scuff marks on their cars. Europcar is famous for the scamming in Australia, i had rented an Audi A4, and they charge me a scuff mark on the tyre! i said forget it if you cannot see that is clearly a mud dirt marks!
I have gone through fine prints and scuff marks on the contract and existing damage report and marked them in great details every time i pick up the car and actually if i have my DSLR, i would put some lighting to go through the car taking videos! Looks like Hertz Germany is a big panel beater company for insurance scam just like everyone in the rental car company...
With these scam practice, i think i should add the super cover... In Australia, Hertz is generally very good, but sure there will be a lot of bad drivers with lots of scuff marks on their cars. Europcar is famous for the scamming in Australia, i had rented an Audi A4, and they charge me a scuff mark on the tyre! i said forget it if you cannot see that is clearly a mud dirt marks!
I have gone through fine prints and scuff marks on the contract and existing damage report and marked them in great details every time i pick up the car and actually if i have my DSLR, i would put some lighting to go through the car taking videos! Looks like Hertz Germany is a big panel beater company for insurance scam just like everyone in the rental car company...
Mar 19, 2015, 2:26 pm
#27
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13
Hertz-Germany refuses to cooperate with insurance-Resolved
In my case, I finally got the matter resolved. I sent an email to Hertz-US Customer Service on 2/24, basically telling them the same thing I have posted on this thread. They replied on 2/27 that they were sending my comments to Hertz-Germany. On March 6th, Hertz-Germany finally replied, essentially saying that they maintain their correctness of the "damage". I forwarded their reply to AMEX car rental insurance, then emailed Hertz-Germany on March 12th asking why they have so far refused to cooperate with the insurance, providing them with the contact information for AMEX. I additionally called AMEX Insurance and gave them the name and email of the German rep who had written me. Voila! By March 16th, AMEX Insurance had received all the information they needed from Hertz-Germany and paid the claim.
It seems the only way to avoid this German deceptiveness is either to take out the super-coverage (I have done this in Italy), or demand they produce the detailed inspection checklist and do a walk-around with me before I accept delivery of the car (France and Italy will both do a walk-around with you). Or the easiest solution - avoid Hertz-Germany completely.
It seems the only way to avoid this German deceptiveness is either to take out the super-coverage (I have done this in Italy), or demand they produce the detailed inspection checklist and do a walk-around with me before I accept delivery of the car (France and Italy will both do a walk-around with you). Or the easiest solution - avoid Hertz-Germany completely.
Mar 19, 2015, 2:39 pm
#28
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
I won't be pushed into taking out unnecessary insurance
Just had a week in Germany where they gave me a relatively new CLS350. I made sure not even a fly touched the car and they commented how beautiful it looked upon returning it (after I put 1900kms on it).
Just had a week in Germany where they gave me a relatively new CLS350. I made sure not even a fly touched the car and they commented how beautiful it looked upon returning it (after I put 1900kms on it).
Mar 30, 2015, 8:59 pm
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seat 2A
Programs: AA EXP LT GLD 1MM, BA GLD, NH/UA*G, Hyatt Dia, Marr Tit LT PLT, IHG Spire,HH Dia, MGM NOIR,Hertz PC
Posts: 10,571
Rented from Hertz at FRA and returned in Berlin at the Europa Center next to the Waldorf Astoria. They tried to stick me with a 'scratch' which is absolutely impossible to come from me since it was a Volvo SUV and supposedly allocated very high. I refused to sign the damage acknowledgement and wrote an email to customer relations that I would file a police report for fraud with Berlin police (you can do that online). Additionally, I restricted all transactions from Germany in the 'Card Control Center' of my credit card just in case they try and deduct any additional charge.