Hostile environment in Hawai'i
Jan 1, 2018, 3:18 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Hostile environment in Hawai'i
Couldn't have said it better: staradvertiser.com/2015/05/30/breaking-news/honolulu-homelessness-crackdown-catches-tourists
That being said, the USA in general has a hostile environment for tourists since you almost never can make a court date without overstaying (which is a crime in itself).
"The citation set a court date of May 27, which she missed. That could lead to a criminal warrant.
Tourists hit with citations have no easy out. They can hire an attorney or request permission to plead guilty by mail, but fighting the citation is more difficult, because you must be present in court for trial. One Toronto woman ended up with a criminal warrant after missing her court date.
(...)
The mayor’s office confirmed the police can’t just give visitors a break.
(...)
Some tourists have told attorneys and court workers that they are so upset they vow never to return."
That being said, the USA in general has a hostile environment for tourists since you almost never can make a court date without overstaying (which is a crime in itself).
"The citation set a court date of May 27, which she missed. That could lead to a criminal warrant.
Tourists hit with citations have no easy out. They can hire an attorney or request permission to plead guilty by mail, but fighting the citation is more difficult, because you must be present in court for trial. One Toronto woman ended up with a criminal warrant after missing her court date.
(...)
The mayor’s office confirmed the police can’t just give visitors a break.
(...)
Some tourists have told attorneys and court workers that they are so upset they vow never to return."
Jan 2, 2018, 1:49 am
#4
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,139
RE your request, I decline to take your chr challenge. But, I again wonder why this issue is so crititical to you that you dig up old news.?
Jan 2, 2018, 1:57 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Thanks. Easy. I am a tourist. I often go to the USA. How could it not be critical? I am scared to be arrested for being in a parc or for whatever other ridiculous reason and not being able to defend myself because I can't overstay. How can you not see the importance of this for an overseas tourist ?
And it's not old news. It's a current problem. Just have a look at the discussions on European fora. The US has a terrible reputation when it comes to traveler's safety from the judicial system in the US.
And it's not old news. It's a current problem. Just have a look at the discussions on European fora. The US has a terrible reputation when it comes to traveler's safety from the judicial system in the US.
Jan 2, 2018, 12:07 pm
#6
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,139
Thanks. Easy. I am a tourist. I often go to the USA. How could it not be critical? I am scared to be arrested for being in a parc or for whatever other ridiculous reason and not being able to defend myself because I can't overstay. How can you not see the importance of this for an overseas tourist ?
And it's not old news. It's a current problem. Just have a look at the discussions on European fora. The US has a terrible reputation when it comes to traveler's safety from the judicial system in the US.
And it's not old news. It's a current problem. Just have a look at the discussions on European fora. The US has a terrible reputation when it comes to traveler's safety from the judicial system in the US.
Jan 2, 2018, 12:49 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Differences
In most countries you get fined on the spot. Or if you disagree with a ticket you can do it by mail. Only real crimes require the presence in court and a lot of things don't even require a judge.
And if you take a lawyer and you win the opposing party (state or individual) has to pay your lawyer costs automatically. In the US you just lost thousands of dollars, innocent or not.
European courts don't force tourists to break the law by overstaying so they can defend themselves. By the way overstaying = banned from the USA for at least 5 years no matter the reason.
If you are wrongly accused as a tourist in the USA you are screwed because you can't go to court so you end up a fugitive. It has NOTHING to do with a law and order desire of "respect the laws then you'll be fine".
And if you take a lawyer and you win the opposing party (state or individual) has to pay your lawyer costs automatically. In the US you just lost thousands of dollars, innocent or not.
European courts don't force tourists to break the law by overstaying so they can defend themselves. By the way overstaying = banned from the USA for at least 5 years no matter the reason.
If you are wrongly accused as a tourist in the USA you are screwed because you can't go to court so you end up a fugitive. It has NOTHING to do with a law and order desire of "respect the laws then you'll be fine".
Last edited by alohagirly; Jan 2, 2018 at 12:50 pm Reason: Grammar
Jan 3, 2018, 4:42 pm
#8
Join Date: Oct 2016
Programs: Several...
Posts: 175
It's not just overseas tourists. It's all Americans as well. If I go to CA and get a citation....sorry California....and get a citation....it's going to be a pain in the butt for me to return for the court date if I live on the east coast. It's not something against foreigners, it's just the way it is. The ABA is working on virtual ways to resolve these issues. I was on a committee with the NCBA to help find solutions for these kinds of problems. Virtual hearings, kiosk, etc. are being discussed.
Jan 3, 2018, 7:20 pm
#9
Moderator: Hawaii-based airlines & Hawai'i forums
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ka ʻĀpala Nui, Nuioka
Programs: NEXUS/Global Entry, Delta, United, Hyatt, IHG, Marriott, and Hertz
Posts: 18,037
Moderator Caution
Aloha, All:
While I appreciate the thoughtful and civil conversation in this thread, I need to make a few observations:
1. FlyerTalk is a website for discussions about miles, points, and travel with a primary goal of members helping other members; and
2. This is the Hawaii (Travel) Forum; where discussion is centered about questions and answers about travel to and in the Aloha State.
Going forward, please keep the above in mind for future posts. There are other forums on this site (and other websites on the internet) where meta-discussion about the laws and judicial system of the United States are more appropriate.
Mahalo for your kokua,
FlyinHawaiian, Co-Moderator
Hawaii (Travel) Forum
While I appreciate the thoughtful and civil conversation in this thread, I need to make a few observations:
1. FlyerTalk is a website for discussions about miles, points, and travel with a primary goal of members helping other members; and
2. This is the Hawaii (Travel) Forum; where discussion is centered about questions and answers about travel to and in the Aloha State.
Going forward, please keep the above in mind for future posts. There are other forums on this site (and other websites on the internet) where meta-discussion about the laws and judicial system of the United States are more appropriate.
Mahalo for your kokua,
FlyinHawaiian, Co-Moderator
Hawaii (Travel) Forum