Trying to decide between AQ and HA...
 

Hi folks. I fly 3-4 times per year between Southern CA and OGG. I have been a DL Platinum Medallion for the last decade and have always flown to/from the mainland on their flights.
With DL's devaluation of their SkyMiles program in 2004 combined with their reduced frequency to Hawaii from Southern CA, I'm in search of a new carrier to HI.
I make occasional interisland flights but my main concern with a carrier is frequency to/from OGG and the ability to upgrade to FC w/o breaking the bank.
I have a handful of miles on both AQ and HA and am now deciding who to concentrate on. Was also considering UA to Hawaii but they just canceled their arrangement with DL.
Whoever I go with, I'll do whatever it takes to ultimately attain elite status including initially buying a few FC fares, getting an airline credit card,etc. I'm just not sure whether to go for HA or AQ and wondered if any of you have any comments/suggestions.
Thanks....

Step one: do you like 737-700s or 767-300s?

No problem with either. I'm familiar with the 737-800's on DL and they have a more comfortable FC section, IMO, than the 767-400's. Not familiar with the 700 series.
The 767-300's are fine with me.
Ready for step two....

Orix chiming in...

Step two:
Do you want to fly out of LAX or BUR?

Well, you might want to consider the two airlines' financial record of late. HA seems to have a more careless management, in this respect, and they're in Ch. 11 right now. AQ seems more solid overall, although it's hard to imagine HA liquidating completely (and the Islands left with only one local carrier?!?!)...

Edited to add: last time I checked the schedule, AQ had no red-eyes to the Mainland. That for me would be a winning point as I can't stand red-eyes. Haven't checked HA's sched lately, though.

[This message has been edited by honu (edited 07-29-2003).]

Hi Orix....prefer either SNA, ONT or LAX as a last resort. I live in LAX flyover country about 50 miles east. HA currently has one flight a day from ONT to HNL with connections to OGG. I understand that AQ flies out of SNA direct to OGG but I haven't yet researched it.
Step three??

HA bankruptcy also bothers me somewhat but, like you, I don't see how they'll ever go 100% down the tubes. At worst I could imagine them being acquired and operated by a different management team.
And like you, I detest redeyes back to the mainland but will fly them if all else fails.

Hmm. One thing that turned me off about Aloha's FF program when I looked at them some years ago was that they have NO elite bonuses. You won't get that 100% mileage bonus as an elite flyer with them. I did a quick check of their web site and I think it's still true.

One good thing about Aloha -- there are no capacity controls on their award seats. At least with inter-island flights, you can show up at the airport with no reservations and if there's an open seat on the plane, it's your with Aloha's FF points. And you can do the same with companion flyer(s).

Another factor to consider -- Aloha and Hawaiian charge twice as many points for an inter-island flight as AA, UA, and NW. It'll cost you 10,000 instead of 5,000 for a round trip.

Yes, it is still true -- there are no elite bonuses, but if you have the First Hawaiian Bank AirAwards Gold Card, every interisland trip you take gives you a 100% bonus. Hawaiian's elite programs does give elite bonuses of 50%/100% for their two tiered program. Here's what their elite program consists of. For Aloha Airlines (AQ), there are two "tiers" of an elite program, if you can call it that. Executive Plus can be paid for. Gives you preboarding, select seating and a special website to book your tickets on (as well as access to all Aloha-operated lounges). The highest tier, Ali`i members, enjoy all Exec Plus perks plus free interisland seating on AQ's interisland flights.

For more information about Executive Plus Membership only on AQ: http://www.alohaairlines.com/aq/Abou...tiveplus.shtml

Hawaiian Airlines offers Pualani Gold and Platinum, similar to the structure for Aloha Airlines. Information about the two tiers can be found here: http://www.hawaiianair.com/hawaiianm...es/pualani.asp

... The programs have their differences. Pualani Plat is a lot easier to acheive than the Ali`i Club (which isn't even listed on AQ's website). Go with the program that's most convienent to your flying needs.

Not true. Aloha Airlines have always had capacity controls on their award seats, but have been -- here's the catch -- much more laxed on how they control them. AQ will switch you around whenever necessary to accomodate your needs, more easily than Hawaiian. For Hawaiian, if you have an award ticket booked on, say, an interisland flight, you can only be rebooked on another flight (per rules) if there are award seats available on that flight. Generally Hawaiian follows its rules much closer than AQ.

Don't forget... you can earn United Mileage with Aloha... why is this important? United offers 5k rewards for interisland travel, which is a good idea if you'll be flying interisland a lot, which I assume you're not. Just the same, Hawaiian offers mileages with their partners as well, but only on certain fare classes (B,M,Q,V,W,Y in coach, and F,P in first class -- which actually looks like all but a few). The problem... the domestic five carriers who are partners with these two Hawai`i based airlines do not offer domestic/trans-pacific rewards with AQ or HA, so not a good idea if you're looking to book a lot of Hawai`i to Mainland flights on award tickets.

My two cents: You're looking to fly out of smaller airports in Southern Cal. area. Avoiding LAX and ONT as your last resort, you're pretty much left with SNA and BUR, which are the two airports that AQ serves. This will allow you to avoid all the hussle and bussle (yay!) or the crowded airports.

In-flight service on AQ is comparable to HA's, but instead of cutting back, AQ is adding. HA offers you that traditional F service, and while their meals are great, there's nothing more to make the customer feel a bit more special. AQ offers HA comparable meals, but also gives free mai tais, cookies, milk in Y! Movies are free too unlike the $5 charge in Y for HA.

Then, think about what partners you'd want to connect on. AQ's partners is UA. HA's partners is NW, CO and AA. Interesting match-up, since UA and HA are the two in bankruptcy right now...

Which brings up the point about financial stability. Although HA's in bankruptcy and cannot find stable leadership, I doubt HA will go out of business anytime soon. There is that possibility (as with UA), but with a profit netted last June, they're looking okay and becoming stronger. AQ's financial strenght is stable.

Also, routes. AQ serves OGG from OAK, BUR and SNA (also offers connections from these airports to LAS, PDX and RNO). HA serves OGG from LAX and SAN -- so the choices for HA to OGG (non-stop) are a lot less from the So. Cal. area. AQ's connections might come in handy if you ever wanted to fly to LAS, and there are some good one-way fares listed somewhere on this board.

Bottom line: go with Aloha Airlines. It's a lot better for you given location, etc. Then strive to attain Ali`i status. HA and AQ does not have elite memberships that give you free HI-Mainland upgrades, and with better award availability on AQ, it might be better to snag an upgrade on AQ than on HA. It only takes 4,000 miles to upgrade an interisland flight on AQ and 5,000 miles to upgrade on HA (one-way). Don't know the mileage numbers for trans-pacific flights.

I hope this helps!

ALOHA -- no not the airline, but the best word on the planet http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Edit: BTW this question has been asked countless times before. Do a serch on this board, the Hawai`i board and the TravelBuzz board to find more answers to your question.

[This message has been edited by slippahs (edited 07-30-2003).]

It sure does! Thanks for the exhaustive analysis! I actually looked through the archives for an answer to my question but found many of the threads to be somewhat dated. With the recent service changes in the So. Ca. market and the BK cloud hanging over HA"s head, I was interested in an update.
Thanks again to all for the opinions and advice. And Aloha!!

Fly Hawaiian!!! I think Hawaiian could make it out CH11. They are making profits again and would be profitable. Aloha is not stable too! There Asset to debt ratio before getting a government loans, there asset to debt ratio is 44:100. So there is 2 times the amount of debts then there assets! Aloha plans to add up to 20 737-700 planes so there would be about 8 or 10 ETOPS planes coming in to Aloha by 2005 thanks to the government loan. There is a posibility Aloha may not do well because of expanding too fast. Sometimes when there are stronghead winds, all Aloha 737-700 planes stop at Oakland before going to there final destination. I have seen there YVR flights getting sent to Oakland because of range. So if the pilots fly LAS-BUR-HNL, if there are strong winds or too many passengers and bags, they may need to make a stop in Oakland because it is the closes mainland airport Aloha serves on the US. If a LAS-BUR-HNL flight was sent to refuel in OAK, the pilots would not be able to fly because it will exceed there flight hour limit. This could mean a fligt from BUR or SNA can get cancelled if the flight came in from PHX, LAS, RNO, or SMF because that is where the pilots begin there flghts on these flights. The only pilot base Aloha has is in Honolulu so there are no pilots avaiable to fly the plane to Honolulu in a case the flight is sent to another airport to refuel. If you fly Hawaiians 767 you would not have to worry about range or crew cancelations because of flight overtime.In the numbers, Aloha is more dangerous but they are not in Ch11. We would never know if AQ or HA will both be there for all of us. I know Aloha is not doing too well even if they are expanding.

[This message has been edited by flyhawaii (edited 07-30-2003).]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

But financial stability is everything here. You have to consider the airports they fly out of, etc.

Hawaiian is a great airline, don't get me wrong, but I think for Cholula flying habits (into OGG), Aloha offers a much more extensive route network than HA does at the current time.

We'll see how AQ fares. They are privately owned so are less likely to declare bankruptcy, have their stocks held... etc.

But who knows? Either one could go under.

ALOHA

My two cents worth: I make the travel arrangements for my father's company and have had the opportunity to book a lot of travel from the West Coast to Maui these past couple of months. My impressions:

Hawaiian- Runs some great sales. Probably trying to raise cash. I've booked two roundtrips for individuals that run through the end of October, and I'm a bit nervous about the financial condition of HA. Their website is also a bit difficult to find fares on. They'll have listed a fare between West Coast and the islands, but when you try and find the fare listed....nothing close. Very frustrating....

Aloha: Have been pleased with their service and fares. Feedback I've gotten from our travelers repeats that. They are happy with the service and the common sense treatment they've received at the airport. Website is very user friendly.....type in a date, select the flights, and the fare you are looking for is there.....sometimes cheaper than advertised. Very happy with Aloha....and I don't have headaches worrying about their financial condition like I do with Hawaiian.

Have also booked several tickets with United and Delta. Deltas very expensive, United has good prices, but the service has been average. Good luck on your choice!

Thanks, slippahs, for the accurate info on elite levels and Aloha award capacity controls. It was so easy to get award seats at the airport for Aloha's inter-island flights that it seemed like there weren't any http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Since Cholulua will be flying mostly trans-Pacific, I would recommend Hawaiian, as its hard, at least for me, to pass up the 100% elite bonus. Think of all those lost miles flying AQ trans-pac!

anthonyanthony makes a very good point about mileage. 100% elite bonuses are great to have, but in the end, it all evens out if you think about the tightened capacity controls that HA places on their awards. In a sense, you need that 100% bonus to get an award ticket whereas on AQ, it'd be a lot easier to find standard award tics, so an elite bonus isn't needed as much. BUT, to lessen worries about NOT having an elite bonus, HA is the way to go because you'll have those miles which you still can transfer to HHonors and use for other carriers as well.

ALOHA