Originally Posted by gemac

Well, it will be pretty hard for Mesa to recruit ground staff with a high work ethic in Hawaii. It will be interesting to see what happens. There is definitely a culture clash possibility there.

Originally Posted by gemac

Well, it will be pretty hard for Mesa to recruit ground staff with a high work ethic in Hawaii. It will be interesting to see what happens. There is definitely a culture clash possibility there.

Originally Posted by FlyinHawaiian

Care to clarify that remark? I'm not sure if I follow the point you are trying to make.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by asu-ua772

Also at one outstation, I saw 2 people do everything, from ticketing to boarding to all the ramp work in trying to pull a 30 minute turn......the flight left late.

Originally Posted by BrokesiliaFlyer

I have personally turned a CRJ-200 in 17 minutes with a full boat going off and a full boat going on. It *is* possible to do with minimal staffing (3 for the CRJ).

Originally Posted by BrokesiliaFlyer

The only time I've seen only 2 people ground handle an aircraft was a Dash 8 (largest of size)... and I've personally turned a Beech 1900D solo a few times (ontime arrival to my city and EARLY departure!)

Originally Posted by BrokesiliaFlyer

In regards to ZV/YV entering the Hawaii market - have any of you actually PRICED out a ticket between some of the markets they're looking at?!?! Do you realize that AQ/HA's loads are well above 75%... and they still claim they're breaking even. Anyone care to notice that inter-island traffic is down over 33% over the past few years?!?!

Originally Posted by BrokesiliaFlyer

Mesa is only following the WN trend of supply and demand. I say more power to Johnny O and his airline.

Originally Posted by gemac

Funny, but my memory is that when Mahalo, Discovery and Mid-Pacific airlines tried to compete with you, you cut your prices. Aloha did too. As soon as Mahalo, Discovery and Mid-Pacific quit, the prices went back up again. This technique is called predatory pricing, and was the subject of some of the first anti-trust laws. It is what made Standard Oil, and made the Rockefeller fortune. Hawaiian and Aloha have been well-connected enough politically to avoid prosecution under anti-trust laws, and indeed have been granted exemptions to those laws so that they could openly violate the laws with impunity.

:-:
The Myth of Predatory Pricing
by Thomas J. DiLorenzo

Thomas J. DiLorenzo holds the Scott L. Probasco, Jr., Chair of Free Enterprise at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga.

...The theory of predatory pricing has always seemed to have a grain of truth to it--at least to noneconomists--but research over the past 35 years has shown that predatory pricing as a strategy for monopolizing an industry is irra- tional, that there has never been a single clear-cut example of a monopoly created by so-called predatory pricing, and that claims of predatory pricing are typically made by com- petitors who are either unwilling or unable to cut their own prices. Thus, legal restrictions on price cutting, in the name of combatting "predation," are inevitably protectionist and anti-consumer, as Harold Demsetz noted.(2)...
:-:


While it is true that neither airline has been profitable recently, you have consistently refused to allow outside auditors to apportion your losses to interisland and mainland business sectors. If you have been losing money interisland, as you have consistently claimed, why not allow independent verification of that?

:-:
Interisland, until very recently and with the help of the newer a/c, hasn't made money. Coupons sales and fare wars between AQ and HA kept the fares from going higher. I cannot give independent verification but I'll say the DC-9 sucked up tons of gas and was maintenance hogs.
:-:


"more in line with today's realities." That is the truest statement in this article. Not "into line with today's realities". Just closer. And guess who is paying for those costs that are not in line with today's realities?



It is true that the employees won't enjoy it. But your customers, who you have been using your monopoly position to gouge, might be OK with the lower prices that result.

:-:
Do you really think that let's look at two flights same day but one in Hawaii and one on the mainland, you tell me who's gouging. I took the cheapest available of BOTH. I used expedia.com

Tue 28-Mar-06
Web Fare
Total price for this trip: $187.16
Honolulu (HNL)
Depart 8:35 am
Terminal Z to Kailua-Kona (KOA)
Arrive 9:18 am 170 mi
(274 km)
Duration: 0hr 43mn

Flight: 120
________________________________________
Economy/Coach Class, Boeing 717

Total distance: 170 mi (274 km) Total duration: 0hr 43mn

Sat 1-Apr-06
Web Fare

Kailua-Kona (KOA)
Depart 6:28 am to Honolulu (HNL)
Arrive 7:08 am
Terminal Z 170 mi
Duration: 0hr 40mn
Flight: 107

Tue 28-Mar-06
Total price for this trip: $327.60
Portland (PDX)
Depart 6:30 am to Seattle (SEA)
Arrive 7:17 am 130 mi
Duration: 0hr 47mn

Flight: 2453
Operated by: Horizon Air
Economy/Coach Class, Canadian Regional Jet 700

Total distance: 130 mi (209 km) Total duration: 0hr 47mn

Sat 1-Apr-06

Seattle (SEA)
Depart 8:30 am to Portland (PDX)
Arrive 9:14 am 130 mi
Duration: 0hr 44mn

Flight: 2331
Operated by: Horizon Air
:-:

This is one of the more disingenuous statements here. First, Mesa will staff its jobs in Hawaii too. Second, despite what is implied here, if Hawaiian or Aloha (or both) fail, the state will not lack for air transport to the mainland.



Most of that philanthropy was during the days of regulation, when you were able to really stick it to your customers. Instead of forcing philanthropy on your customers (while you take credit for it) wouldn't it be better to allow your customers to make their own philanthropic contributions? Make your philanthropic contributions out of your pocket, please, not mine.

:-:
When you say days of regulation? You mean in the 70's. How about this:

http://www.hanahou.com/hawaiianheart.html
Hawaiian Airlines is a perfect example. Now seventy-five years old, the company simply cannot be separated from the people and culture of the Islands. Its 3,200 employees come from every neighborhood and every ethnic background; they drive the company. When calamity strikes, they respond. When economic opportunity arises, they boost it. When it’s time to celebrate, they join the parade. Like good members of the ‘ohana, they care for the whole. How could it be otherwise? They’re Hawaiian!

So, it’s quite significant that the Honolulu Symphony Orchestra nominated Hawaiian Airlines for recognition in last year’s National Philanthropy Day, and that Hawaiian was chosen as the state’s top philanthropic organization. Says Symphony president Steven Bloom, "Hawaiian Airlines has been one of our best and most key sponsors. They are the kind of company that will just do anything for us."

Now, since 1999, the Hawaiian Air flight attendants operate their own nonprofit organization that fundraises and maintains a rescue treasury for those in need. At this writing, the entire company is planning to adopt the Wings of Hope model so that emergency help will be available to all 3,200 employees.

From the get-go, Hawaiian Airlines has been a leading sponsor of the Merrie Monarch Festival, the world’s biggest hula fest, and it is also a leading sponsor of the Celebration of the Arts, a huge and free Hawaiian culture program put on by the Ritz-Carlton Kapalua.

Even in the face and after 9-11, HA supported the local people, how much do you think MESA would do to help the local people and communities?
:-:

Well, you would have greater control of our destiny if there is reduced competition. I would not. How about giving me control over your destiny instead of insisting I give you control over mine?

Wasn't it P.T. Barnum who said that nobody ever went broke underestimating the provinciallism of Hawaiians? Looks like Mr. Casey agrees. :rolleyes:

The islands' primary industry is tourism, and the biggest factor retarding growth of tourism is the high cost of Hawaii as a destination compared to other similar venues. High interisland airfares are certainly a part of that higher cost structure. Competitive, market interisland airfares will promote growth, jobs, and ultimately wages in the state.

:-:
"Competitive, market interisland airfares will promote growth, jobs, and ultimately wages in the state"

You must be talking about the welfare wages that JO pays his pilots and staff. Pilot's are going to have to have 12 in an apartment just to make a living. forget the family unless to get the wife and kids to work.
:-:

As I have said many times before here, I wish Aloha and Hawaiian well. I hope that they make the changes needed to bring their airlines "into line with today's realities." All the way, not just part way. If they do, they will survive and prosper. If they do not, they will surely fail. Thinking like that of Mr. Casey impedes that process and endangers the future of Hawaiian. He is doing no favors to the airline, its employees or stockholders.

:-:
"into line with today's realities.
Please let me know what your realities are?

I would like to ask any business person on the board, if someone from out of town shows up on your door and and put on the PR crap like JO's ranting and raving, wouldn't you use any legal means to protect your business??

And just for the record, yes, I work for HA and I have many friends over at AQ. I tried to help a few members on this board with problems they discussed here and I think (let me know) it helped. I just think any suggestion that I or anyone at HA or AQ would use this board for some devious purpose is wrong, I would leave that to the likes of JO and his lacky's.
:-:

Oh, by the way, welcome to Flyertalk, HAL717200. Do you, by any chance, work for HAL?

Originally Posted by jtkauai

Xlnt post. I had the same hunch. There was a pilot at HA who was on Flyertalk, who previously sent me private messages, and who was in touch with their VP of customer relations (as though they had any). I know I should welcome new posters to Flyertalk, but sometimes I too am a little leery. As an aside, I have also come to take posts on tripadviser.com with a grain of salt after determining that there's "funny business" in many of the posts.

Originally Posted by gemac

Hi, HAL. We are glad to have you here. Welcome. You are among friends.

The thing that will most directly determine the number of pilots who fly interisland is the demand for interisland flights. Like anything else, the lower the price of those flights, the higher the demand for those flights. In order to satisfy that increased demand, more pilots would be hired (by someone). So you see, I am on your side, and Mr. Casey is not. Mr. Casey and his coveted anti-trust exemption (and the resultant high fares) are why HA and AQ have pilots on furlough. Do you remember when you could pop over to a neighbor isle for $19, have dinner, and come back that same evening for another $19. I do. Now, I don't know anybody who does that. Do you?

:-:
When was that? and how much was gas? Big Mac? Milk?



What appeals to you about a company that has "deeply rooted its tradition in Hawaii?" How does HA fulfill that appeal for you?

I have a commercial ticket with an instrument license, so I know some of what you are facing.

Originally Posted by formeraa

While I am not a big fan of Mesa Airlines, I applaud the pilots who help out with luggage WHEN NECESSARY. One time, we were running late in a CRJ-900 and there was a lot of carry on luggage stored underneath. The pilot went out and helped unload the luggage to help ensure a speedy turnaround. I personally thanked him as we de-planed. It was a nice gesture as the ground crew was struggling with two flights at non-adjacent gates and a third plane with a maintenance problem.

Originally Posted by jtkauai

as a hawaiian platinum flyer, for the moment, i'll just say that i'm thrilled to see mesa coming here.

Originally Posted by jtkauai

And on a slight aside, I saw IslandAir's new look (and new Q400 planes) on their web site today. Looking good. Aren't they in perhaps the best position to really excel in the inter-island market?

Originally Posted by TheBinaryBot

I think your right, Island Air is in a good position and with bigger airplanes They will do better. But of course, with Aloha, Island Air, Pacific Wings and Hawaiian we all have a monopoly in the InterIsland market.

Originally Posted by TheBinaryBot

Also, like employees at Aloha, Pacific Wings and Island Air, we'll all in feel like we're part of a family and to hear that AQ or HA don't give back to the community after all the things direct and indirect thats these companies do also is upsetting. No wonder most of the crap at Walmart is made in China with child labor, nobody gives a .....