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HA to adds intl route: possibly Japan and US East Coast

HA to adds intl route: possibly Japan and US East Coast

Old May 25, 04, 11:08 am
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HA to adds intl route: possibly Japan and US East Coast

Justplanes.com has a mini-report on Hawaiian Airlines.

It says that Hawaiian is considering to expand its international service to Japan and US East Coast.
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Old May 25, 04, 11:59 am
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Hawaiian has been considering a move to Japan for quite some time now. They've always just been "waiting for the right time" regarding the market.

Would be nice to see Hawaiian expand -- we'd end up getting something like Alaska Airlines. I'd think HA would want to pull out of bankruptcy first before making any other drastic, risk-taking changes however.

aloha
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Old May 25, 04, 10:01 pm
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Red face

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/b...2hawaiian.html

"Hawaiian has been very successful cherry-picking its markets," said Bill Oliver, an airline analyst with The Boyd Group in Evergreen, Colo. "It appears that management is stabilizing the operations of the airline while it is in bankruptcy. The question remains is, will this work going forward."

Dunkerley said Hawaiian Airlines is looking at "four or five" East Coast cities to provide nonstop service to Hawaii. He would not identify the cities.

"All of the big airlines have hubs in the Midwest, so we'll skip that and go to the East Coast where we sense there are opportunities," Dunkerley said."


With skipping the big hubs and heading east, I wonder where they will go. Plus, I wonder if they'll run non-stops straight to Hawaii or use a west coast city as a stopover point. If the later, then Seattle is looking like a good stop-over point, since it has the most number of Hawaiian flights of any city...but where to go to that is not a "major hub" already? Anyone have any guesses?
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Old May 25, 04, 10:15 pm
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Plus, I wonder if they'll run non-stops straight to Hawaii or use a west coast city as a stopover point. If the later, then Seattle is looking like a good stop-over point, since it has the most number of Hawaiian flights of any city...but where to go to that is not a "major hub" already? Anyone have any guesses?
Wasn't it stated that: "Dunkerley said Hawaiian Airlines is looking at 'four or five' East Coast cities to provide nonstop service to Hawaii."

In any case, if they were to run a one-stopper on the west coast somewhere, I don't know if it would be SEA because of HA's ties to NW (and NW's presence at SEA). In fact, IMHO I don't believe HA would put a hub anywhere else but HNL. I mean, they've gotten rid of all their pilot bases on the West Coast to cut costs, so I'd expect a network based in HNL.

East Coast-Hawai'i non stop flights is an excellent idea IMHO. You'd get reasonable loads and as long as you choose the right cities, those flights would do fine. They've got the jets that AQ will never probably have, and therefore have the ability to expand in that direction and are biting as soon as possible.

Internationally, I think HA should be cautious. UA has increased their loads to Hawai'i, AA has started planning their new service. You have a choice from over 10 flights a day to NRT, most served by triple 7s or jumbos, and of course, this has been one of those targeted destinations for HA. SYD was a great idea. What else could they serve?

aloha
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Old May 26, 04, 6:06 pm
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Originally Posted by slippahs
Wasn't it stated that: "Dunkerley said Hawaiian Airlines is looking at 'four or five' East Coast cities to provide nonstop service to Hawaii."

In any case, if they were to run a one-stopper on the west coast somewhere, I don't know if it would be SEA because of HA's ties to NW (and NW's presence at SEA). In fact, IMHO I don't believe HA would put a hub anywhere else but HNL. I mean, they've gotten rid of all their pilot bases on the West Coast to cut costs, so I'd expect a network based in HNL.

East Coast-Hawai'i non stop flights is an excellent idea IMHO. You'd get reasonable loads and as long as you choose the right cities, those flights would do fine. They've got the jets that AQ will never probably have, and therefore have the ability to expand in that direction and are biting as soon as possible.

Internationally, I think HA should be cautious. UA has increased their loads to Hawai'i, AA has started planning their new service. You have a choice from over 10 flights a day to NRT, most served by triple 7s or jumbos, and of course, this has been one of those targeted destinations for HA. SYD was a great idea. What else could they serve?

aloha
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Old May 26, 04, 6:07 pm
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Originally Posted by Crzn33k
Getting something like Alaska Airlines. Is that good or bad?
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Old May 26, 04, 6:41 pm
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Originally Posted by Crzn33k
Getting something like Alaska Airlines. Is that good or bad?
Good if it brings the cost down on trips to/out of HNL!
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Old May 26, 04, 9:42 pm
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Originally Posted by slippahs
Wasn't it stated that: "Dunkerley said Hawaiian Airlines is looking at 'four or five' East Coast cities to provide nonstop service to Hawaii."

In any case, if they were to run a one-stopper on the west coast somewhere, I don't know if it would be SEA because of HA's ties to NW (and NW's presence at SEA). In fact, IMHO I don't believe HA would put a hub anywhere else but HNL. I mean, they've gotten rid of all their pilot bases on the West Coast to cut costs, so I'd expect a network based in HNL.
No, the Seattle pilot base continues to operate. LAX and SFO closed shop. See http://starbulletin.com/2003/10/07/business/story1.html.

While it was stated they are looking for non-stops, they still do have a small Seattle pilot base and the possibility remains. That is all I was really trying to say. I think the possibility remains.

I doubt Hawaiian and NWA really care about each other out of Seattle....Hawaiian keeps adding planes to Hawaii, while NWA has reduced Hawaii capacity out of Seattle, going from daily DC-10 routes to 757 routes.
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Old May 26, 04, 9:57 pm
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler
No, the Seattle pilot base continues to operate. LAX and SFO closed shop. See http://starbulletin.com/2003/10/07/business/story1.html.
My fault on that one

Originally Posted by WedTraveler
I doubt Hawaiian and NWA really care about each other out of Seattle....Hawaiian keeps adding planes to Hawaii, while NWA has reduced Hawaii capacity out of Seattle, going from daily DC-10 routes to 757 routes.
I respectfully disagree. Since both carriers don't share a partnerships on their CONUS-Hawai'i routes, any increased competition puts strain on existing relationships (even with NW's downgrade of their -10s to 753s, which FWIW really ticks me off). A few of DL's past moves and now lack of partnership with any interisland airline seems to back this up. Either way, increased flights to/from Hawai'i is great news for HA and it'll be interesting to see where those flights end up going (place your bets ).

aloha

Last edited by slippahs; May 26, 04 at 10:01 pm
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Old May 27, 04, 12:01 am
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I heard a rumor before 9/11 that Hawaiian was considering JFK. I do fly to NYC at least 4 times a year but I think I would still stick with United even if they start a JFK route. I think Japan is a low yield market and Hawaiian would need to work with travel agents in Japan to sell low priced travel packages and I wonder if it would be profitable. SYD was a very good choice with very high fares in the market and least competition. The SYD route was in the works by Casseys team, not Gotbum. Hawaiian needs some planes to expand. I don't expect any other new routes until they emerge from chapter 11 or next summer.
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Old May 27, 04, 7:30 pm
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Originally Posted by slippahs
My fault on that one



I respectfully disagree. Since both carriers don't share a partnerships on their CONUS-Hawai'i routes, any increased competition puts strain on existing relationships (even with NW's downgrade of their -10s to 753s, which FWIW really ticks me off). A few of DL's past moves and now lack of partnership with any interisland airline seems to back this up. Either way, increased flights to/from Hawai'i is great news for HA and it'll be interesting to see where those flights end up going (place your bets ).

aloha
But consider this - NWA just added Seattle-Maui last year, right in the face of Hawaiian's Seattle-Maui flight. And now NWA just added Kona to the Seattle-Maui flight, so you get to Kona in one stop. With a one-stopper into Kona now this flys against the Seattle-Honolulu, change of plane Kona flight on Hawaiian. By NWA's actions they have intruded into Hawaiian's territory, so I doubt there will be any allegiance to anything by Hawaiian. Hawaiian will do what it deems to be in the best interest of Hawaiian. I really expect to see some New York-Seattle-Honolulu/Maui flight. This way Hawaiian can fill both destinations with a one change of plane deal in Seattle. I think this then gives Hawaiian some flexibility, and Seattle can use additional seats on a NYC-Seattle route. I also expect to see some other east coast destinations on a less than daily basis, perhaps 3-4 days per week to cities such as Philadelphia, BWI, Dulles, Charlotte, Columbus or Cleveland, Boston, St. Louis (places that currently have connections to get to Hawaii)

I also wouldn't be surprised, if in time, Hawaiian picks up some smaller aircraft, say 757s or 737s to serve some of the smaller cities on the west coast and then divert some more of the bigger 767 planes to either international (Japan, increased Australia, etc.) and other east coast destinations.

All of this is a guess, of course!
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Old May 27, 04, 7:53 pm
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler
But consider this - NWA just added Seattle-Maui last year, right in the face of Hawaiian's Seattle-Maui flight. And now NWA just added Kona to the Seattle-Maui flight, so you get to Kona in one stop. With a one-stopper into Kona now this flys against the Seattle-Honolulu, change of plane Kona flight on Hawaiian. By NWA's actions they have intruded into Hawaiian's territory, so I doubt there will be any allegiance to anything by Hawaiian.
Not really. NW used to operate TWO HNL-SEA flights on -10s, dropped those flights and are now recovering those seats. (yeah, they added a few more seats). Either way, I'm excited to hear about where they'll fly

aloha

Last edited by slippahs; May 27, 04 at 8:00 pm
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Old May 27, 04, 8:42 pm
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Originally Posted by slippahs
Not really. NW used to operate TWO HNL-SEA flights on -10s, dropped those flights and are now recovering those seats. (yeah, they added a few more seats). Either way, I'm excited to hear about where they'll fly

aloha
Yes, really. The SEA-HNL flights then needed Hawaiian to connect to Maui, Kona, etc. Now SEA-OGG-Kona is a direct flight and it takes business away from NWA from HNL to outer islands. So yes, they have taken some of Hawaiian's business. I doubt there will be any honoring of routes....and there is a reason why Hawaiian eliminated the LAX and SFO pilot bases and retained the one in Seattle....they see more growth out of Seattle than SFO and LAX.
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Old Jun 1, 04, 8:26 am
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler
Yes, really. The SEA-HNL flights then needed Hawaiian to connect to Maui, Kona, etc. Now SEA-OGG-Kona is a direct flight and it takes business away from NWA from HNL to outer islands. So yes, they have taken some of Hawaiian's business. I doubt there will be any honoring of routes....and there is a reason why Hawaiian eliminated the LAX and SFO pilot bases and retained the one in Seattle....they see more growth out of Seattle than SFO and LAX.
Reports indicate that Kona was added to the mix because of runway length and range issues at OGG. I wouldn't read too much into the Kona addition. However, your point about the pilot base at SEA seems relevant to this discussion. We may well see a JFK-SEA-HNL flight. Then again, if HA can serve the route non-stop in a profitable manner, it probably will. Why stop in SEA if you don't have to?
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Old Jun 1, 04, 2:59 pm
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I doubt if one will ever see HA going to the east coast as I cannot imagine them filling all those seats without any feeder flights (incl codeshares). They even have jump around now in the west coast cities to optimize their load factors.

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