JimNastic

Per Airlineroute website:

eff 01JAN19
Honolulu – Phoenix
Honolulu – San Jose CA
Kahului – San Jose CA
Kona – Los Angeles
Lihue – Los Angeles

eff 31MAR19
Honolulu – Sacramento

azj

Essentially, that's the network the 767s are flying through the end of 2018. Have caution when reading this information as there is lots of time between now and then, changes are likely. It appears these could be place holders since there won't be any 767s to fly in Jan 2019.

formeraa

Well, the drama is over. I guess they feel that the A321 can reliably serve PHX. I guess we will see how many LAX/SAN/Bay Area fuel stops are required in the winter months. It does mean a rather drastic reduction in capacity for PHX though. Will they consider running double-daily flights during the holidays.

azj

Again... there will likely be many schedule changes between now and Jan 2019. HA is very likely still tweaking the winter schedule and what was published on that routes website, is taken from the GDS. The GDS will often just have place holder equipment for generic schedules until they're finalized. We don't know a lot about what's planned for PHX, but what HAL does know, is that the fuel efficiency of the 321 has exceeded expectations. A lot of questions are still unanswered regarding the post 767 network because lots is still in play regarding 321 deliveries and 330 allocation. Already suggesting fuel stops for PHX is a bit dramatic and incredibly premature, so let's just wait until HAL finalizes the schedules before we jump to conclusions.

formeraa

I don't think it's overly dramatic to have an opinion about an airline's PUBLISHED schedule. HA doesn't have a vast fleet -- we know it will be the 330 or the 321. This is known to be a long flight for the non-LR A321. It has been a source of speculation since HA and US ordered the 321 for serving Hawaii-Mainland. Former US Airways President Scott Kirby even said that he hoped the 321neo would have the range to do PHX-HNL. So, it is a legitimate issue to bring up.

Furthermore, it will be interesting during the summers with the extreme heat in Phoenix. Thankfully, the HA flight leaves early, so the temp won't likely exceed the low 90's in the mid-summer.

azj

You've missed my point, obviously it will be 321neo or 330. All I'm suggesting is that we don't make assumptions about things to which we don't have all the data. Yes, it's a published schedule, but this is an airline as you well know, and things are fluid this far out. Making presumptions about fuel stops is indeed premature, especially since you have no relevant data to base your suggestions on.

formeraa

Well, HA will find out soon enough whether the 321 will make it reliably in the winter (with strong headwinds) and in the summer (with the PHX heat), once they begin service. If it comes to pass, it will also be a huge reduction in the number of seats, which will mean less availability and higher fares during peak periods (good for HA, bad for consumers). But the main thing will be the reduction of perceived room and comfort on a 7+ hour flight (as the January 2019 schedule shows).

azj

You don't think that perhaps there are engineers who run models to figure things out BEFORE they launch such a change? Certainly, you realize airlines just don't throw stuff at the wall to see if it will stick. If it does go 321neo, there will indeed be a decrease in seats, if only 36/35 remains. However, as I've said multiple times, we don't know the whole story at this point for the post 767 schedule. As we've seen with PDX, OAK and possibly other markets, the widebody flight can be split into multiple flights on the 321neo, thereby maintaining or even increasing capacity.

formeraa

In theory, the 737-800 can make it to Hawaii from the West Coast to Hawaii reliably. In practice, the winter reliability is sometimes questionable. The A321 neo can, in theory, make it from PHX to HNL (an hour longer than the West Coast flights, btw). In practice, it remains to be seen because of PHX weather in the summer and winter headwins along the route. I had one flight (thankfully on a 757) a few years ago that took 7:10 in-flight time).

By the way, I am an engineer by schooling. Again, I'm just asking the tough and very valid questions here, based on a PUBLISHED schedule, not idle speculation about what HA might do in the future.

azj

Indeed... a published scheduled that is subject to change, which I have advised is likely. A published schedule that is very far out and is likely reflecting place holder equipment. You however, were already suggesting tech stops because of assumed range issues vis a vis other airplanes flying to Hawaii. The bottom line once again and try to read between the lines here... there are pieces to the puzzle that are unknown at the moment. How about we wait and see what happens?

formeraa

Of course, a published schedule is subject to change for operational reasons if nothing else. For example, on the day of departure, a 321 may be substituted for a 330 on a route of appropriate length, if a 330 is out of service. However, HA has published a schedule for Jan 2019 (less than a year away) on a Hawaii route, which many passengers start booking months in advance. It is totally reasonable to express thoughts and concerns about a published schedule. As for "wait and see" approach, that may well be fine for some, but my comments remain valid in the context of a published schedule.

By the way, certain very large airlines are known to put placeholders (e.g. AA previously with MD80s, now with 738s) on routes where planes can be used interchangably.. HA has not done this historically. So, I have no basis to suggest that the aircraft will be changed (unless the 321s have delivery issues.

azj

I know this is a forum of one dimension and very little context, but I'm telling you with conviction, that the published schedule for January 2019, is very likely not set in stone and is subject to change. I'm not talking about one off day of departure ad hoc changes either. And yes, HAL indeed uses place holders, historically, before the schedule is finalized. In the past, 767s became 330s and vice versa. Another example, the December 2018 schedule published for the 767 will be an impossibility considering their retirement dates. HA is very likely awaiting further solidification of the later 321neo deliveries of the year and making other commercial decisions with the 330, before the schedule is final. There is lots of time to make adjustments and if guests book a January trip to Hawaii from PHX on the 321neo and the route actually becomes a 330, HAL will adjust things accordingly for them. Just like those individuals who book the 330 from SMF and it becomes a 321neo. These kinds of things happen all the time at all airlines for schedules far into the future.

As for the performance of the 321neo... you're comparing the 737-800 and the A321ceo to the A321neo. HAL is still evaluating its performance on certain routes and until the verdict is in, your comments, concerns and hard hitting questions, all valid of course, are based on lots of assumptions. Once again, all I'm suggesting is that perhaps we get all the information first, then start worrying about things like fuel stops and capacity decreases. The wait and see approach, in which there is PLENTY of time for a flight in January 2019, will allow one to be best informed.

formeraa

This board thrives on a diversity of opinions. I may respectfully disagree with other, but I totally respect their right to share their opinion. Obviously, I'm not getting that respect in this particular thread. I have stated my professional opinion on this topic, commenting on a valid schedule that HA has published. HA has indicated, by the published schedule, that they will operate a 321 on the PHX-HNL-PHX route.

azj

Oh my gosh, this is becoming increasingly difficult and a waste of my time. I post here to provide facts, insight and guidance in matters which I know what I'm talking about. As I have said numerous times... you're entitled to your opinion, can ask questions, make comments etc... I've never intended to disrespect you, but am merely pointing out flaws in your data and lack of facts to which you've built your opinion. This is after all a place for discussion and I'm simply pointing out, with really good authority, that you don't have all the information, so maybe you should reserve judgement until you do. This whole discussion started as a result of a post, found on a blog, in which they obtained published schedule info regarding a flying schedule well into the future. I simply suggested that it was likely subject to change, based on my knowledge of the situation. You inserted assumptions into the discussion, to which I attempted to guide into a factually based discussion. In the end, if you choose to base your opinion without having all the info, then so be it.

N830MH

They won't have any problem about the weather. if the weather is not too hot during the Summer time. The temps have to be lower. Yes, the A321neo has more capabilities, more fuel-efficient, and more range, as well. If they have ETOPS overwater certified from FAA approval. They shouldn't worry about the fuel.

If they published the schedule for PHX-HNL by operated A330. Probably it will be very slow during winter time. Later in Spring time, they will swap for A330 aircraft. It will be very extremely busy for spring breaks travels.

Right! If the schedule is change. They will deployed A330 aircraft. As for A321neo, they do have more capabilities, more fuel-efficient, and more range, as well. They won't have any weight restrictions.