azj

I doubt we'll see HAL back in ANC. When the travel agency that partnered with HAL to fill the flights was purchased by AS, well... that changed the landscape.

beckoa

Yeah the redirect is lound n' clear there:

hawaiianvacations.com

I miss the ads on local TV here...

Longboater

In response to the A321NEO replacing the 767 on PHX-HNL. PHX is a base where 767 maintenance is performed, hence the 767 is on the route. I wouldn't be surprised if PHX is the final route until all 767s are retired. How many 767s are scheduled to leave this year? I believe two are quite up there in age. I'm not aware of the 767 retirement schedule but its a safe bet that all will be retired by the end of the decade.

For new potential routes for these planes, I expect that KOA/LIH/OGG will see new mainland flying, while the A332s are based at HNL. I also expect frequency increases on HNL-PPG/PPT. For a brand new South Pacific route, I think HNL-NAN/APW/RAR on weekly/twice weekly frequencies are possible. HAL served some of them in the past and with the smaller and much more fuel efficient aircraft, combined with low oil prices, have potential of being successful.

whjensen

I posted about this in another thread on the A330 remakes. But does anyone have an idea on what loads are like to the West coast cities? Moving from 1 A330 flight to A320s is not a no-brainer.

You either need to increase capacity in the route by 100 by increasing frequency to 2 flights or decrease capacity by roughly 100. It might make sense on the current routes serviced multiple times a day (LAX and LAS?) or on routes that have too much capacity. I'm just not sure what those cities are. I think someone mentioned adding routesfor KOA/LIH (as well as more OGG) to the mainland. This makes more sense to my mind that trying to rejigger existing load capacity. What about YVR?

FBWFTW

It was me about the thinner (KOA/LIH) routes-I think if I poke around I can find some good posts from some of the insiders and I'll try to link you. Other than that-stuff I've posted is things I've seen when googling up Hawaiian A321Neo.

The article below refers to SPLITTING cities where there's one daily flight on an A330 to HNL, they'd split that to 1x each A321 to HNL/OGG.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/routes-hawaiian-focuses-on-a321neo-introduction-pla-417006/

This article refers to branching out a bit and has YVR listed for you ;-)
Hope you get service!
I'm hoping for Boston nonstop down the line. Apparently there's a big Polynesian diaspora here in the Northeast (of NYC that is) according to a poster in another thread regarding East Coast expansion.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/21/4-ways-the-a321neo-could-transform-hawaiian-airlin.aspx

Enjoy! Also-i'd recommend that you maybe carefully check out some posts by a few others in these forums. Some folks around here are likely "insiders" and their posts are very insightful-it will become apparent who's who so to speak if you read thru the threads a bit.

whjensen

The flight splitting for the smaller cities makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the great info!

Cheers!

azj

To echo... the primary role of the 321neo will be to connect the dots between currently served cities and the unserved neighbor islands. It will also allow for the potential to add additional frequencies in current markets as well as split a city that sees 1 767 or 330 from HNL into multiple 321neo's from multiple cities. It can also be used to start new markets. Finally, they will also be used to retire the last 6 767s. The bulk of the 330 flying to the west coast will likely remain, especially to cities like LAX, SFO, SEA, LAS and JFK. Another interesting possibility for the 321neo could be to increase frequency to PPT, which is only served 1/wk. Considering there is practically no room in HNL, especially during the current peak mid-day rush and the new terminal way behind schedule, that indicates to me at least, the concentration will be on the neighbor islands to the west coast for the 321neo.

FBWFTW

Speaking of the mid day rush-I just saw a pic over on IG of an HA 332 and an AS 738 doing "laps" around the taxiways and holding while waiting for gate space. How long on the new Mauka Concourse and will the Ewa Concourse still remain as it is to increase capacity? I remember seeing it was supposed to be ready by 2017-I'm guessing maybe not?

azj

Gate capacity is very constrained during the peak rush hours during the mid-day. Most of the gates in the airport are common use, with no carrier having priority unless they have at least 6 flights/day at a gate. Since the State controls the gate assignments there isn't always common sense involved and often times one can wait for a gate, even though there are open ones that seem available. The other problem is that they're so tightly scheduled, if someone is late, that problem ripples. Often time, international flights can get "customs hold" if the arrival facility is backed up, which also causes ripples.

As for the new Mauka concourse, that project is very much behind schedule. The new maintenance/cargo facility for HAL has to be completed before the existing facilities are torn down. Once that happens, the commuter terminal has to be razed, only after they rehouse Island Air and Mokulele. Then, the Mauka concourse can be built. At the moment, progress on the new maintenance/cargo facilities are at a standstill, due to the main contractor being fired at the end of 2015 due to nonpayment to the sub-contractors. The project has recently gone out for a re-bid with hopes that construction will resume soon. As for completion? Who the heck knows.

Kumulani

Last I heard the Mauka Concourse was supposed to be done in 2019, but who knows, they may push it forward yet again.

I'm curious, though, after it's done, how much Hawaiian will still need to use the Ewa Concourse. It looks like at a minimum, international arrivals will need to continue using the old gates, since the Mauka Concourse won't have those facilities. But will they continue to have some departures out of Ewa, or move all of them to Mauka?

I also wonder how they will handle agriculture inspections in the new concourse. I don't think having a screening station at the entrance to Mauka would work, because it looks like Mauka will also be used for interisland flights. Will they have a screening station at each gate? That seems cumbersome.

Finally, a few years ago, they showed some plans for rebuilding the Ewa and Diamond Head concourses:

http://www.hok.com/design/type/aviat...lu-hawaii-usa/

Is something like this still on the roadmap for after the current projects are done?

azj

Originally, the Mauka concourse was supposed to be done in the 2016/2017 timeframe. I don't even think there are any more predictions going on out there, purely because everything is stopped at the moment. HAL may end up having to pay for the finishing of the Maintenance/Cargo facility, since the State has screwed up the project so bad. HAL may also have to pay for work on T2 (Interisland) since that facility is in bad shape and not appropriate for the volumes of people HAL sends through it.

When Mauka is done, IIRC, it will have up to 11 narrowbody gates, but will be able to flex to allow widebodies to park there as well. I think it was 6 widebody gates. There will still be a great need for the Ewa concourse for HAL operations. What I think Mauka will do is allow HAL to finally consolidate the operation to that side of the airport and not have to use the Central concourse and even gates 12/13 and the Diamond Head concourse at times.

When a 767 departs from gates 57, 59 or 61 today, they do an individual agriculture screening at each gate, for each flight. It's a bit cumbersome, but it's doable.

N830MH

I don't think so. It's not very good idea to fly A321neo to PHX. Is not an options. Only 767 or A330 aircraft. I think you'll seeing A330 to come to PHX, if necessary. If they freeing up the A330 aircraft by other US mainland city. IF they can gets 2nd daily nonstop to HNL. This flight is always full for everyday. There's no way to get a seats.

FBWFTW

Iirc someone mentioned that the LUS management specifically wanted the non LR version of the A321Neo to have the range for PHX-HI routes

HA (and AA) will very likely use A321Neo's in PHX at some point. When the 75's go away AA won't have a non widebody to use although their Neo deliveries were deferred.

As for HA-Whether it's to increase frequency or expand and say add an OGG/LIH/KOA route that won't sustain a 330 (at least at the beginning of service) like Azj mentioned before, you'll definitely see A321Neo's in PHX going to HI at some point in the next few years.
Can't speak to getting a seat, but iirc there's 2-3 AA flights and 1 HA daily.

I also think I read somewhere that HA's A321's will have ~190 seats. That's 62 less than the 767 config. So if there's periods/seasons where that 76 might not fill up, it would make perfect sense for them to toss an A321 that will be close to full.

Either way-the next few years should be an interesting and fun time for the folks in PHX that have had to suffer with the brown end of the stick as it relates to the quality of cabins to Hawaii (mainly AA and the old school 75's) They'll have some brand new planes be they 330's to HNL or 321's to OGG and/or HNL!

formeraa

Yes, I had previously mentioned that LUS management asked Airbus to make sure that the 321neo had the range to go from PHX-HNL without restriction. I assumed that they meant the standard 321neo, so as to allow flexibility in aircraft scheduling.

Based on the post above about 763 maintenance being done at PHX, it seems very likely that PHX will have the 763 until all of them are retired. Once that happens it is very possible that there would be a mix of 321s and 330s. I could see the 321 being used at off peak times/days with the 330 being used at peak times/days.

Oh, by the way, I got caught in the mid-day congestion last week, waiting to fly HNL-PHX on AA. The inbound aircraft for our flight sat on the tarmac for 40 minutes, waiting for a gate to become available. Our flight, was thus delayed 30 minutes and, then, another 25 minutes waiting for a ground crew to push us back from the gate. Apparently, the ground vendor was "short-staffed" according to our captain. Frankly, I was a bit disgusted with the operational issues at HNL and a number of passengers missed their connections at PHX.

Is there any possibility of doing a temporary expansion somehow in the shorter term? Or at least manage the gates better (good grief, buy some halfway decent gate management software -- it EXISTS out there -- and work with airlines to achieve better scheduling!!)

beckoa

Remote gates on the Hickam side?

I was fortunate to spend a couple days on base early this month- now that has some amazing views of the reef runway from the beach was sad I didn't have my camera (couldn't find it). Didn't realize that congestion was getting that bad in HNL guess AS might migrate to more redeyes if they add frequency?