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HA Contemplating More East Coast Routes...

HA Contemplating More East Coast Routes...

Old Dec 16, 2015, 12:14 pm
  #16  
 
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Vietnamn Airlines 787-9 recently visited DCA -

It presumably departed ok (but empty)
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Old Dec 16, 2015, 12:57 pm
  #17  
 
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The 787 being the successor to the 767-I suppose those would work! I do imagine they've got enough thrust to get airborne with the Trent or GENX's! Still not 100% on a fully loaded A330 doing it daily from DCA though! But perhaps one of the pilot type folks can weigh in here!

Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Jun 6, 2017 at 5:09 am Reason: removed quote
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Old Dec 18, 2015, 10:48 am
  #18  
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I would bet lots of money that a HAL 330 will not be seen in regular service to/from DCA. IAD however... another story.
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Old Jan 29, 2016, 10:00 pm
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How about MIA?
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 7:46 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by azj
Exactly. There's a very good reason why HAL hasn't really ventured into the fortress hubs of other airlines.
Um, HA has a strong presence at SFO. They have no fear of UA.
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 11:14 am
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Originally Posted by Kacee
Um, HA has a strong presence at SFO. They have no fear of UA.
I think maybe DFW and ORD were the fortresses that were implied there as opposed to SFO which while it's a hub for UA-it's a standard West Coast kind of jump off airport for flights to HI-similar to LAX/SEA/SAN etc-but I did notice HA has only 1 flight each to HNL/OGG from SFO during my search for West Coast to HI flights
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 11:47 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
Um, HA has a strong presence at SFO. They have no fear of UA.
I wouldn't call 2 daily flights a strong presence, but okay. In reference to fortress hubs, I was referring to ATL, DFW, IAH, ORD, DEN and the like. The west coast market is the largest domestic draw for people to Hawaii. There's more than enough demand for HA to serve west coast hubs, like SEA, PDX, SFO and LAX.

The further one goes east, while visitors to Hawaii exist, in large numbers, there are a plethora of 1-stop options to Hawaii via the other airline fortress hubs, which make it a little more challenging for HA to serve those cities. JFK is a great example of the challenge. With so many options for one stop travel from the NYC area to Hawaii, HA has to price the nonstop flight just right, in order to fill the plane and fill it with fares that will make money. The population density of the NYC area helps make this flight successful as well as jetBlue's feed. HA has found the key to success in JFK and seems to be happy with the performance of this route. I would guess that JFK would need to be on firm footing before HA delves into other East Coast markets.

Last edited by azj; Jan 31, 2016 at 12:15 pm
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 12:07 pm
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Originally Posted by azj
HA has found the key to success in JFK and seems to be happy with the performance of this route. I would guess that JFK would need to be on firm footing before HA delves into other East Coast markets.
Hit the nail on the head as usual ;-)
On my recent trip-I had some HA execs on my flight from JFK and I got a chance to speak to a few of them-they seemed at the time (right after investor day where the topic was first mentioned) to be of the mind that:
A. JFK has been a pretty successful flight for the company in terms of being able to reach the east coast and keep the numbers in the right spot-and
B: they are definitely planning on looking at other potential East Coast destinations further down the line when the new Airbus orders (A321Neo and later A330-800Neo) begin to be delivered.

On a side note-I've been wondering since this thread started which routes HA might use the A330-800's on. For instance-will they use them on the longest routes for the fuel like JFK/PEK? Or will they be returning some of the older leased A332's as the A338's come in?
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 12:19 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by FBWFTW
Hit the nail on the head as usual ;-)
On my recent trip-I had some HA execs on my flight from JFK and I got a chance to speak to a few of them-they seemed at the time (right after investor day where the topic was first mentioned) to be of the mind that:
A. JFK has been a pretty successful flight for the company in terms of being able to reach the east coast and keep the numbers in the right spot-and
B: they are definitely planning on looking at other potential East Coast destinations further down the line when the new Airbus orders (A321Neo and later A330-800Neo) begin to be delivered.

On a side note-I've been wondering since this thread started which routes HA might use the A330-800's on. For instance-will they use them on the longest routes for the fuel like JFK/PEK? Or will they be returning some of the older leased A332's as the A338's come in?
If I had to guess, the 330-800neo's could be used in 2 directions. If there is still opportunity to grow and can extend the early 330-200 leases, they'll fly them side by side deploying the -800neo's on the longest routes like PEK and maybe new ones like MEL, HKG, PVG. I'm not sure that JFK has any limitations with the current -200 being used. If demand softens or some other uncontrollable issue is at hand at that time, HA can always return the planes and take on the -800neo's in a bid to increase efficiency while maintaining capacity. The point is, that they've built in flexibility into the fleet and can take the airline in different directions at that time. It's likely too far down the road to have concrete plans.
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 12:36 pm
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Originally Posted by azj
If I had to guess, the 330-800neo's could be used in 2 directions. If there is still opportunity to grow and can extend the early 330-200 leases, they'll fly them side by side deploying the -800neo's on the longest routes like PEK and maybe new ones like MEL, HKG, PVG. I'm not sure that JFK has any limitations with the current -200 being used. If demand softens or some other uncontrollable issue is at hand at that time, HA can always return the planes and take on the -800neo's in a bid to increase efficiency while maintaining capacity. The point is, that they've built in flexibility into the fleet and can take the airline in different directions at that time. It's likely too far down the road to have concrete plans.
Interesting take-thanks for the answer-looking back those leasebacks sure seem like a stroke of genius now! Dumping big capital costs while at the same time keeping flexibility to grow to new destinations and or return aircraft as needed! Still got my fingers crossed for a Boston nonstop!
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Old Feb 1, 2016, 1:07 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by FBWFTW
I think maybe DFW and ORD were the fortresses that were implied there as opposed to SFO
Originally Posted by azj
In reference to fortress hubs, I was referring to ATL, DFW, IAH, ORD, DEN and the like.
ORD is not a fortress. It's a hub for AA and UA.

Originally Posted by azj
I wouldn't call 2 daily flights a strong presence, but okay. In reference to fortress hubs, I was referring to ATL, DFW, IAH, ORD, DEN and the like.
HA has multiple daily flights from OAK and SJC, all of which compete against UA's SFO hub for Hawaii traffic.

Again, HA does quite well in competition against UA. If they choose not to serve a market (e.g, IAH or ORD), it's not because they fear competition from UA.
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Old Feb 1, 2016, 11:39 am
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
ORD is not a fortress. It's a hub for AA and UA.



HA has multiple daily flights from OAK and SJC, all of which compete against UA's SFO hub for Hawaii traffic.

Again, HA does quite well in competition against UA. If they choose not to serve a market (e.g, IAH or ORD), it's not because they fear competition from UA.
Semantics. ORD may not be a fortress hub for AA, but it certainly is for UA. The point is that both airlines have large market shares with a large customer base. They both offer many 1-stop options to Hawaii, including the UA nonstops that HA would have to compete with.

HA isn't afraid of competition, but that's not the point. The point is that the other carriers that maintain hubs in these cities mentioned have a huge advantage over HA in those markets. It's called HUB FEED. UA doesn't have to rely only on people in Houston or Chicago to fill their nonstops. AA doesn't have to rely on the people of the Dallas metro area to fill the DFW flights. Everyone knows that when you die you connect in ATL on your way to heaven, illustrating the point that DL has massive feed to ATL. If HA were to enter those markets, they would have to rely on local traffic alone, to make the flight successful. A tall feat when competing with carriers who maintain hubs in those cities.
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Old Feb 1, 2016, 5:16 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
ORD is not a fortress. It's a hub for AA and UA.
HA has multiple daily flights from OAK and SJC, all of which compete against UA's SFO hub for Hawaii traffic.

Again, HA does quite well in competition against UA. If they choose not to serve a market (e.g, IAH or ORD), it's not because they fear competition from UA.
The key for HA is sufficient local O/D demand to Hawaii. West Coast markets have a lot of local passengers traveling to Hawaii. The further east you go, the local traffic declines greatly.

HA has found a successful way to serve JFK (HUGE metro area with sufficient local demand to Hawaii, a codeshare agreement with B6, and the only nonstop to Hawaii out of JFK). Other markets are going to be more difficult.
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Old Feb 9, 2016, 3:18 pm
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Per Airbus, the A338 (neo) will have a 7,500 nautical mi range (~8,600 mi). That's well past plenty enough for any mainland location.
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Old Feb 9, 2016, 3:54 pm
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DL had 767 service for the inauguration in 2009 from ATL. it was only for that weekend.

that 787 would have been fairly empty departing DCA.

and HA has 0% chance of operating n/s HNL-DCA.
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