New 717 interiors are here!

Reply

Old Mar 5, 15, 12:49 pm
  #1  
azj
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,390
New 717 interiors are here!

The first 717 with the new interior entered service today. The story and photos are here in the corporate press release.

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...cle&ID=2023185

And here at the great website, The DesignAir.

http://thedesignair.net/2015/03/05/w...-amenity-kits/

There's also a glimpse into the new amenity kits launching in April for international and JFK flights.
azj is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 6, 15, 12:54 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kea'au, Hawaii
Programs: Recovering Delta SkyMiles Addict--Now Gold with AAdvantage
Posts: 569
What the glowing press release doesn't tell us is that there will be an inch less leg room and 10 extra seats in Y. Headline in todays on-line HNL Star-Advertiser: "Hawaiian pinches an inch of leg room." On short interisland flights, only the tallest customers will complain, but it's a bit disengenuous for HA not to mention it.

Last edited by KeaauFlyer; Mar 6, 15 at 1:00 pm
KeaauFlyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 6, 15, 1:19 pm
  #3  
azj
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,390
This reconfiguration was supposed to increase or keep the same leg room, compared to the other configuration, so I'm not sure where the StarAdvertiser is getting their information. Yes it added up to 10 seats on some of the planes, most only saw an increase of 1 row, or 5 seats. When you remove lavatories and closets up front and install thinner, but not necessarily more uncomfortable seats, you create more real estate for the additional seats. Nice opening sentence that instantly misleads the reader. The seats don't recline, because they're designed in a recline position to begin with!
azj is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 6, 15, 2:59 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kea'au, Hawaii
Programs: Recovering Delta SkyMiles Addict--Now Gold with AAdvantage
Posts: 569
" . . . was supposed to increase or keep the same leg room . . .", but HA's release doesn't say so. Therefore, I'm inclined to take the Star-Advertiser's word on it. Anyone who knows airline speak knows that if they had managed to keep the same legroom, they would be touting it from the rooftops. As I said, it's not a big deal for most people on a short flight. I just wish HA would be fully honest about it. And don't start me on their crappy off-island phone center.
KeaauFlyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 6, 15, 3:27 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AS MVPG, HA Plat
Posts: 550
Originally Posted by azj View Post
This reconfiguration was supposed to increase or keep the same leg room, compared to the other configuration, so I'm not sure where the StarAdvertiser is getting their information. Yes it added up to 10 seats on some of the planes, most only saw an increase of 1 row, or 5 seats. When you remove lavatories and closets up front and install thinner, but not necessarily more uncomfortable seats, you create more real estate for the additional seats. Nice opening sentence that instantly misleads the reader. The seats don't recline, because they're designed in a recline position to begin with!
I'll withhold judgment until I try them, but "not necessarily more uncomfortable" doesn't exactly inspire confidence. And pitch on some of those planes was pretty bad already. I don't have long legs, but one of the existing configurations is tight enough that even a slight recline of the seat in front puts it into my knees and makes even a Hilo flight pretty miserable.
WrightHI is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 6, 15, 4:54 pm
  #6  
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Upcountry Maui, HI
Posts: 11,674
I wonder if they are reducing pitch or legroom or both? Thin seats do reduce pitch but the leg and knee room typically remains the same due to the seats themselves.

The new Y seats don't recline. That's good. Most people don't recline on these anyway at least IME, which is a good thing because there's so little leg and knee room as it is today.

They had a bunch of different seating configs on the i/i fleet. This retrofit is supposed to unify that also.

The Star-Advertiser might be right, but I wouldn't take their word for anything.

-David
LIH Prem is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 6, 15, 5:52 pm
  #7  
azj
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,390
Originally Posted by WrightHI View Post
I'll withhold judgment until I try them, but "not necessarily more uncomfortable" doesn't exactly inspire confidence. And pitch on some of those planes was pretty bad already. I don't have long legs, but one of the existing configurations is tight enough that even a slight recline of the seat in front puts it into my knees and makes even a Hilo flight pretty miserable.
I've tried them. That's why I'm saying what I'm saying. My "not necessarily more uncomfortable..." comment was to take aim at the assumption that more seats = less comfort. The seats are thinner on the back and when that reduction of thickness is added up amongst all the rows and combined with the other reconfigurations (removing closet and/or lavatory), it yields more space.

I agree, one of the configurations is indeed tight in the knee area, but thinner seats actually increase that knee space.

Originally Posted by KeaauFlyer View Post
" . . . was supposed to increase or keep the same leg room . . .", but HA's release doesn't say so. Therefore, I'm inclined to take the Star-Advertiser's word on it. Anyone who knows airline speak knows that if they had managed to keep the same legroom, they would be touting it from the rooftops. As I said, it's not a big deal for most people on a short flight. I just wish HA would be fully honest about it. And don't start me on their crappy off-island phone center.
Yes... phone center in Manila = less than ideal.

Okay... semantics. The press release says this: "The new lightweight seats are engineered to ensure a maximum amount of personal space without compromising legroom or comfort." It doesn't say specifically that it increases or keeps the same leg room, those were my words, but that was the point of the project as demonstrated by internal presentations. The point remains... the object was not to make things worse. Taking the Star Advertisers word? That's your choice. I'd be leery considering they can't even report this story accurately and have cast a negative twist on the matter, very likely without having even had their butts in the seat!

Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Mar 6, 15 at 8:07 pm Reason: multi-quote should be used
azj is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 6, 15, 11:47 pm
  #8  
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Upcountry Maui, HI
Posts: 11,674
Originally Posted by azj View Post
I've tried them. That's why I'm saying what I'm saying.
Thanks for clarifying. I certainly think you are much more credible than the Star-Advertiser.

-David
LIH Prem is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 7, 15, 10:31 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AS MVPG, HA Plat
Posts: 550
Originally Posted by LIH Prem View Post
Thanks for clarifying. I certainly think you are much more credible than the Star-Advertiser.

-David
While it doesn't take much to be more credible than the Star-Advertiser, I second the comment and appreciate the additional detail. I've sat in slimline seats that were just fine and some that were terrible, which is why I'm withholding judgment, but your comments give me hope.

Now if we could just get HA to think a little bit about the loyalty program and focus a little more on service to local customers. It appears that their idea of improving the elite experience is this stupid deal of splitting plats and golds into two separate boarding groups, which just confuses everybody and puts some of the dimmer GAs into penny ante authoritarian mode.
WrightHI is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 7, 15, 3:00 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kea'au, Hawaii
Programs: Recovering Delta SkyMiles Addict--Now Gold with AAdvantage
Posts: 569
I understand how some would not necessarily believe the Star-Advertiser, but the Associated Press is now reporting a one-inch reduction in legroom on HA's 717 fleet:

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...island-flights

In the interest of fairness, I will concede that the new seats could easily be more comfortable for most passengers than the old.
KeaauFlyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 7, 15, 7:30 pm
  #11  
azj
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,390
Originally Posted by KeaauFlyer View Post
I understand how some would not necessarily believe the Star-Advertiser, but the Associated Press is now reporting a one-inch reduction in legroom on HA's 717 fleet:

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...island-flights

In the interest of fairness, I will concede that the new seats could easily be more comfortable for most passengers than the old.
Ah yes... the media. I'm really curious to know where the Star Advertiser and AP get this reduction of 1 inch business? Nowhere have the dimensions been published, that I have seen. All HAL announced was that "The new lightweight seats are engineered to ensure a maximum amount of personal space without compromising legroom or comfort."

It's also funny that the takeaway from this story has become negative, with the headlines stirring up a frenzy of misinformed readers. Really? A seat that's already in the reclined position that doesn't recline further is going to be a deal breaker because it doesn't recline? Auwe! I wonder if this stuff ever gets proof read for logic and some semblance of an attempt to provide the reader with truthful and accurate information.
azj is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 8, 15, 12:21 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: HNL
Programs: UA Gold (1MM), AA Gold (1 J trip), Ex-HA Plat (now not), Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold, GE
Posts: 4,296
Originally Posted by azj View Post
Ah yes... the media. I'm really curious to know where the Star Advertiser and AP get this reduction of 1 inch business? Nowhere have the dimensions been published, that I have seen. All HAL announced was that "The new lightweight seats are engineered to ensure a maximum amount of personal space without compromising legroom or comfort."

It's also funny that the takeaway from this story has become negative, with the headlines stirring up a frenzy of misinformed readers. Really? A seat that's already in the reclined position that doesn't recline further is going to be a deal breaker because it doesn't recline? Auwe! I wonder if this stuff ever gets proof read for logic and some semblance of an attempt to provide the reader with truthful and accurate information.
Can you disclose the recline angles (old seats fully reclined) and seat pitch of the old and new seats? That would add facts to the discussion.
747FC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 8, 15, 12:05 pm
  #13  
azj
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,390
Originally Posted by 747FC View Post
Can you disclose the recline angles (old seats fully reclined) and seat pitch of the old and new seats? That would add facts to the discussion.
I don't have the specs on the new seat as far as pitch and angle of recline. AFAIK those haven't been published. This provides the root of my suspicion and surprise that the headlines are bemoaning a reduction in pitch. The only specs I can find regarding the old seat are on the HAL website and sites like SeatGuru.
azj is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 8, 15, 12:37 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kea'au, Hawaii
Programs: Recovering Delta SkyMiles Addict--Now Gold with AAdvantage
Posts: 569
Originally Posted by azj View Post
I don't have the specs on the new seat as far as pitch and angle of recline. AFAIK those haven't been published.
Publication of said specs would provide clarity, wouldn't it? My cynicism about this comes from the fact that if the specs were flattering, they almost certainly would have been published by HA. Of course, one does wonder how the AP and Star-Advertiser reached their conclusion. Better journalism would have provided some frame of reference.

Ultimately, this won't matter for most of us because there is really very little choice in interisland carriers in any practical sense. We take what HA gives us.
KeaauFlyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 8, 15, 12:50 pm
  #15  
azj
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,390
Originally Posted by KeaauFlyer View Post
Publication of said specs would provide clarity, wouldn't it? My cynicism about this comes from the fact that if the specs were flattering, they almost certainly would have been published by HA. Of course, one does wonder how the AP and Star-Advertiser reached their conclusion. Better journalism would have provided some frame of reference.

Ultimately, this won't matter for most of us because there is really very little choice in interisland carriers in any practical sense. We take what HA gives us.
Indeed, better journalism is always nice. Specs would have been great, but even then those could be used to fuel wild negative speculation. Already, the numbers provided have painted a negative picture. Going from 118 or 123 seats to 128 seats? OMG! The sky is falling. But when you take a look at what's really going on, only a handful of planes were in the 118 configuration and had a closet and lavatory upfront. Removing those, frees up lots of space to add 2 rows, or 10 seats. The other planes are really only seeing one row added, with space made available by the thinner profile of the new seat. In the end, most people really don't care about the specs, since most people gloss over the fine details anyhow. All people want to know is how this refurbishing will affect them and HAL has said the design is meant to not reduce onboard comfort. The average consumer doesn't care to learn the details or find the "why" in matters of the business. They just want the cheapest seats. Ultimately, the flights are incredibly short and these seats and new configuration are ideal for the 717 mission. I'm a glass half full sort of person and try not to find the negative spin in matters that surround me. I tend to not find the worst in things until I can experience them for myself and draw my own conclusions. That view, is the genesis for my devils advocate approach in this thread. Having sat in the seat helps too.

Last edited by azj; Mar 8, 15 at 12:57 pm
azj is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread