gettingaround

Visiting Marrakech soon.Has anyone here stayed at La Mamounia? ALso, is there any gay action or ways to cruise/meet Moroccan men? Any info appreciated. Will post a report on return. Thanks

izzik

I wouldn't say Marrakech is cruisy.
It's probably safer to do the cruising in Casablanca, if at all.

anonplz

No to question one. Oh, yes to question two.

anonplz

I'm sure you have good reason for saying that, but I would have said just the opposite. Hmmm.

izzik

Okay, if there were any cruising to be done in Marrakech, it's outside the medina.. in the newer part of town. Whenever I think of Marrakech, I think of the medina I guess.

anonplz

There a certain sidewalk cafe on the Djemma el-Fna (town square) where cruising goes on traditionally. And anyway, I had no problems getting offers. But that's probably because I'm gorgeous and sexy and blond. Seriously. No, really.

izzik

note: I'm speaking from the perspective of whether it should be attempted.. and not whether it's possible to hook up. after witnessing public displays of violence (blood, knives, testosterone) in djemma el-fna, I'm more cautious.

but hey, if it's worth it to you, then go right ahead.

anonplz

I didn't see anything like that, but it's a reminder that anything can happen and to always be on your guard when traveling.

What were the circumstances - at least as far as you know - surrounding such an altercation? Sounds like drugs or something. Because I'd find it hard to believe it was a gaybashing; that would contrast with my experience being kissed by one of the Tuareg vendors in his squarefront shop in front of a half dozen tourists, none of whom seemed too disturbed. Marrakech seemed very gay-friendly. (NOTE: I used a dental dam, so, just to clear that up...)

BCH

I see all these threads on gay cruising in Morocco, Pakistan, etc. Let me share one note of caution. The concept of personal space and male-to-male relationships is very different in these nations from that in Western countries. Do not mistake staring and close physical proximity (when talking, for ex.) for cruising. And even then, be aware of constant framing by police, especially in Egypt and Morocco.

Homosexuality is illegal in 26 Muslim countries: Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bosnia, Iran, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen.

Of these, Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Yemen, have even recently applied the death penalty to suspected homosexuals. Egypt and Morocco continue to witchhunt and punish suspected homosexuals, incl. Westerners. If you cannot wait to cruise until back in safer cultures, then do so very carefully.

izzik

No, I wasn't mentioning that incident as an example of homophobia-induced violence. I mentioned it because my experience with Marrakech has been that it's more of a "anything goes" kind of place.

By the way, as BCH has mentioned, there is a HUGE difference between same-sex affection and homosexuality acceptance. To confuse the two can possibly result in unfavorable situations, depending on where you are and who you are dealing with.

anonplz

^ Absolutely. Thanks for pointing that out.

And as I said in a PM to the threadstarter, if at any time your gut says danger, back away. Don't go off with anyone alone. Avoid deserted streets and districts. Never let your drink out of sight. Be watchful after dark. At ATM's, be aware of your surroundings. Don't carry too much cash or valuables. Yes, this applies anywhere, but especially in such countries.

Anecdotally, there is a higher risk of all kinds of unthinkable outcomes in some of these countries, as well. Actually, anyone travelling in these countries should be extremely cautious, but esp. gays since they are executed merely for existing. And do not forget that gays flee many of those countries because of very real persecution, including extortion, rape, prison and execution, back in their home countries. Being framed is another common trap, as you point out, of which a tourist must be aware.

Tourism forms an important part of Morocco's economy, and so while it can be a lovely country to travel to (and who among us Flyertalkers doesn't enjoy traveling? Heck, my arms get tired from all the flying I do), I certainly wouldn't push the envelope, especially in these days of terrorism and warfare.

Have fun, but be exceedingly careful. You simply can not be too cautious. In the last few years, I myself have put off travel to many of these countries due to what is obviously worsening human rights conditions. I think I'd probably melt upon arrival at the airport. But seriously, if you can catch "Midnight Express" before going, I think it would put you in the proper state of mind. Not only do you not have a legal right in such countries to engage in homosexual activity, you can be arrested and punished for doing so. And with this administration, I could be wrong but I don't think they'd be all that interested in assisting US citizens arrested for homosexual activity.

You know, if you could simply turn off your gayness 'til after leaving that country or if a gay individual could turn off their desire to travel (at least w/r/t those countries) to exotic places, that would be ideal. Of course, that's like saying, turn off your brain or turn off your skin color. You can't do that, gay is what you are, but you can be aware of the dangers and be exceedingly careful. You don't have to be a shut-in and lock your doors at sundown, but be aware of the risks and try not to take any. I'm reminded of a line from "Bride and Prejudice" and the starlet says disparagingly to someone, "Yeah, sure, all you want to do is build a holiday island in India where you can accommodate foreigners who do not wish to meet any Indians!" But sadly, that's sort of exactly what you - as a gay person - have to do in some of these countries; i.e., stay away from locals.

I knew someone who once worked at a relatively low level for the State Department and we'd discuss this topic all the time (gays traveling to such countries), and like she used to say, it's especially hazardous for gays, but also women, who'd travel there and disappear or end up being horribly abused. The dangers are very real. In fact, she used to tell me point-blank, "DON'T GO! DO NOT GO THERE! YOU WILL BE A TARGET." I have to say, she convinced me - for better or worse - probably saved my life. Like I said, you wouldn't be a member of Flyertalk if you didn't enjoy traveling, and while I could say, do not go to Morocco, I doubt you'd listen, and then you'd go anyway, and you would be less prepared because you hadn't listened to what people had to say.

So I hope that point has been driven home.

gettingaround

Thanks to all for the advice. Being widely traveled I am well aware of the dangers. I'm talking about VERY DISCREET cruising/eye-to-eye contact. I have heard that at the top hotels certain employees are available (for a nice fat tip) and was hoping someone might know about this,

UrbaneGent

If you are looking for some poo-na-ne....and Middle Eastern at that, I'd recommend Dubai. You will certainly have a good time <grin>

As for that gorgeous blonde guy lurking around these parts...how about a tall, dark, handsome, and hot guy for you in Chicago?

UG

SoccerJock

I'm ready!

UrbaneGent

I was talking about ano.... <grin> but I love a man in soccer shorts