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-   -   Getting German citizenship/passport (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/germany/850054-getting-german-citizenship-passport.html)

jason8612 Jul 29, 08 9:51 pm

Getting German citizenship/passport
 
Since LH is mostly German, thought I would ask this question here.
Father was born in Wroclow (Breslaw), Poland which at that time was Germany. How could he become a German citizen and get a German passport if it is even possible? Is there any issues with dual citizenships? What would be the first step? And is there a way then can I get German citizenship (does it work on birth/blood line like Polish citizenship does. If one of your family members was Polish (25% at least I believe) you can get Polish citizenship?)

trooper Jul 29, 08 11:17 pm

It WAS in fact "German" for quite a long time (Prussian before unification)..It was a National Socialist stronghold from the early days of the party....

After beng handed over to Poland most of the remaining Germans left.. either voluntarily or otherwise...(Big surprise there eh?)

Sounds like he might have a case for citizenship if you ask me....Of course I don't know the "rules" in that part of the world.. but if he was born there before 1945.. well... He should be "German" by birth...

Utterly amazing....... Bravo!! :rolleyes:

BIMMERKID2 Jul 29, 08 11:40 pm

... are yall talking about?
 
As per :

http://www.germany.info/relaunch/inf...ersecuted.html

The German Constitution:

Article 116 par. 2 of the Basic Law (Grundgesetz) reads:

'Former German citizens who between January 30, 1933 and May 8, 1945 were deprived of their citizenship on political, racial, or religious grounds, and their descendants, shall on application have their citizenship restored. They shall be deemed never to have been deprived of their citizenship if they have established their domicile in Germany after May 8, 1945 and have not expressed a contrary intention.'

The above mentioned group of people mainly includes German Jews and members of the Communist or Social Democratic Parties.

The situation between 1933 and 1945:

Between January 30, 1933 and May 8, 1945 there were basically two laws pertaining to the loss of German citizenship.

With the 'Law on the Revocation of Naturalizations and the Deprivation of the German Citizenship' of July 14, 1933, some persons were deprived of their German citizenship individually. Their names were listed in the Reich Law Gazette ('Reichsgesetzblatt') and with the publication of the particular Reichsgesetzblatt they lost their German citizenship.

The main group of former German citizens, however, lost their citizenship with the 'Eleventh Decree to the Law on the Citizenship of the Reich' of November 25, 1941. This stipulated that Jews living outside Germany could not be German citizens. This mainly affected Jews who had left Germany in the years before or shortly after the beginning of the Second World War.

What does this mean for you?

Whoever lost his/her German citizenship due to either of these two regulations, is entitled to (re-)naturalization according to Article 116 par. 2 of the Basic Law. This applies also to his/her descendants.

However, Art. 116 par. 2 Basic Law only applies where a person was deprived of his/her German citizenship by application of those politically/racially motivated laws.

Whoever, while living outside of Germany, acquired a foreign citizenship upon his/her own application before his/her name was published in the Reich Law Gazette or before November 25, 1941 lost his/her German citizenship as any other German citizen would have lost it in accordance with Sec. 25 of the German Citizenship Act. If you acquired a foreign citizenship (i. e. US or Israel) upon your application and lost your German citizenship not as a result of politically motivated deprivation, you may be eligible nevertheless to reobtain your former German citizenship, if you emigrated from Nazi Germany for political reasons and applied for naturalization in your new home country as a result of this situation (in this case this would not apply to descendants). For further information, please contact the locally competent German mission.

How do I go about it?

The application for naturalization in both cases does not require a special form. Nevertheless, to facilitate the process of searching archives in Germany, we have prepared an application form on our website. Please fill in a printout, sign it and return it to the locally competent German mission with all documents available (e. g. old German passports of the German emigrant, birth certificates of emigrant, marriage certificates, copies of the naturalization papers of other states where the German emigrant had been naturalized after leaving Germany. If you are a descendant of such person, please submit all certificates of birth and marriage necessary to prove your descent from the former German citizen). Your signature under your application should be notarized either by a notary public or by your locally competent German mission or German honorary consul.

Once you have gathered all documents, you can contact the locally competent German mission to set up an appointment to go through your application. Necessary copies will be made of your documents and will be notarized by the consular officer, and the application will be forwarded to the appropriate office in Germany. If you can not come to the German mission personally, you are required to submit all documents as notarized copies. To obtain these, please contact your local notary public. All foreign documents should be translated: however, the Federal Office of Administration in Cologne, Germany, which decides over your application will accept documents in English. Documents in other than Latin scripture, will require translations (e. g. Hebrew, Russian).

The application is free of charge and might take up to a year, depending on the ability to find the necessary documents in archives in Germany. The more information you give, the easier it will be for the German office handling your application (German Federal Office of Administration - Bundesverwaltungsamt) to track down the required information. If you have family members who have already gone through the application process, please provide information on their application or send in a copy of their German certificate of naturalization ('Einbürgerungsurkunde')

Please call attention to name changes/alterations due to naturalization and transcriptions of German names into foreign languages (e. g. Müller to Mueller/Muller/Miller or Grünspan to Greenspan, abbreviations of first names e. g. Alfred to Fred, Johann(es) to John or even complete name changes of first and last names).

"

end quote from http://www.germany.info/relaunch/inf...ersecuted.html

Flying Lawyer Jul 30, 08 12:11 am

Moderators: You might want to shift this to the Germany forum!

From what I read I do not even know whether the OP's father was German. Being born in Germany (OT: Breslau was not only German "for quite a long time" but founded as a German city in the 13th century and this part of Silesia was under Prussian or Austrian rule ever since) does not automatically give you the right to German citiizenship.

The OP needs to know whether his father's parents acually were/are German and whether he was born as a child to German parents. If his father applied for a different citizenship he lost in German citizenship. Everything is pretty much complicated as Germany avoids dual citizenship. For details pls contact the relevant law:

http://www.bundesrecht.juris.de/bund...tag/gesamt.pdf

or more appropriate the German embassy.

ThWilmesi Jul 30, 08 12:14 am

One issue with dual citizenship as Germany normally doesn't allow dual citizenship per law, but I know there are exceptions which need to be approved by the German authorities

skywalkerLAX Jul 30, 08 2:00 am

Such a complex question I would direct to your local german embassy or consulate. They are specialized in this questions and more qualified than a messaging board where already the second post gives you wrong advise.

I dont know if this information is included exactly in the "Vertriebenengesetz" but the consular officers will advise your there.

Good luck ! :)

totti Jul 30, 08 2:25 am


Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer (Post 10118809)
Moderators: You might want to shift this to the Germany forum!

Yes, I will :) If you see a misplaced thread, please use RBP in future. It'll take some seconds only.

Have a nice day

totti
M&M moderator

flyingfkb Jul 30, 08 3:40 am

BIMMERKID2 explained the process in a lot of detail. As the others said. Dual citizenship is something the German law doesn't permit.

There are cases where Turkish citizens who took the German citizenship where stripped of the German citizenship because they reapplied for a Turkish passport after they got the German citizenship.

The only Dual Citizenship I know of that is legal is a US-German citizenship. Before accepting the US citizenship you can file an application to keep your German citizenship but only if you still have ties to Germany. For example close family still living in Germany or working for a German company that needs you to travel a lot to Germany. You also loose your German citizenship if you take the US citizenship before your application is granted.

soitgoes Jul 30, 08 3:47 am


Originally Posted by caspritz78 (Post 10119246)
BIMMERKID2 explained the process in a lot of detail. As the others said. Dual citizenship is something the German law doesn't permit. .

I find German citizenship laws exceedingly complicated, and I've given up understanding all of it, but I think that dual citizenship is tolerated in some cases where one is born with both. If you are naturalized, then it isn't allowed.

alex0683de Jul 30, 08 5:12 am

I agree that the consulate/embassy is probably your best source of information for this (and I recommend starting with this link).

Especially these points::

I lost my German citizenship because I acquired a foreign nationality. Can I get my German citizenship back?

My ancestors were German nationals. Can I get a German passport?

My mother and/or father was/were born in Germany. Does this mean I can become a German citizen?

Given your profile, I would suggest contacting the German Consulate General in Chicago:

http://www.germany.info/relaunch/inf...o/chicago.html

Flying Lawyer Jul 30, 08 6:37 am

The most relevant issue is whether or not the OP's father was a German citizen at the time of the OP's birth.

If he was not, the OP will in general have no chance to become German UNLESS his father was deprived of his German citizenship
  • on certain grounds clearly stipulated in the laws during the German Nazi regime (these are eg "Verfolgte") or
  • during the Polish communist regime (these are eg "Spätaussiedler").
The German consulate will be happy to help.

Flying Lawyer Jul 30, 08 6:43 am


Originally Posted by caspritz78 (Post 10119246)
The only Dual Citizenship I know of that is legal is a US-German citizenship. Before accepting the US citizenship you can file an application to keep your German citizenship but only if you still have ties to Germany. For example close family still living in Germany or working for a German company that needs you to travel a lot to Germany. You also loose your German citizenship if you take the US citizenship before your application is granted.

There are several cases of legal dual citizenship in Germany. This is stipulated in sec. 12 RuStaG. The most important one is sec. 12 (2) RuStaG which allows dual citizenship for EU and Swiss citizens.

DownUnderFlyer Jul 30, 08 6:51 am


Originally Posted by caspritz78 (Post 10119246)
BIMMERKID2 explained the process in a lot of detail. As the others said. Dual citizenship is something the German law doesn't permit. ....
The only Dual Citizenship I know of that is legal is a US-German citizenship. Before accepting the US citizenship you can file an application to keep your German citizenship but only if you still have ties to Germany. For example close family still living in Germany or working for a German company that needs you to travel a lot to Germany. You also loose your German citizenship if you take the US citizenship before your application is granted.


Originally Posted by soitgoes (Post 10119265)
I find German citizenship laws exceedingly complicated, and I've given up understanding all of it, but I think that dual citizenship is tolerated in some cases where one is born with both. If you are naturalized, then it isn't allowed.

German law does allow dual citizenship under certain circumstances. For example if a child is born to German parents in a country where you get citizenship automatically upon birth (US, Australia etc.) the child will have two passports and doesn't need to decide which one to keep. (The situation is different for children born to foreign parents in Germany.)

The exception caspritz78 is referring to is not specific to US/German citizenship. There are plenty of dual citizens in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Brasil etc. etc.
Germany will allow you to obtain a second citizenship and keep your German passport if you have applied for a permission to keep you German passport before you apply for the foreign passport.
For this application to be approved, two conditions need to be met:
a) You need to prove that you still have links with Germany (house, family, employment, bank accounts, Frequent Flyer Program)
b) You need to prove why you need to get the foreign passport. In other words, why is a permanent residency or green card not good enough? Answers can be that you can not get scholarships only open to citizens, you can not get into certain jobs (customs, government, defense industry) etc. Just saying you want to be able to vote is not good enough.

There are quite a few countries which normally don't allow dual citizenship, China is another example. And there are more rules regarding German dual citizenship as Flying Lawyer has mentioned.

chrissxb Jul 30, 08 6:52 am

for some countries since Aug1st last year no need to ask for permission anymore. EU-countries.

chtiet Jul 30, 08 8:46 am

For the OP it boils down to:

1. Did your father have German citizenship?
2. Were you born while your father had German citizenship?

If the answer to both is 'yes', then you may have a case. If it's 'no' to either, then no dice.


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