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Getting German citizenship/passport

Getting German citizenship/passport

Old Jan 28, 11, 10:18 am
  #46  
 
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Thanks oliver2002! Those links are very helpful!
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Old Jan 28, 11, 11:24 am
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach View Post

I have a friend who is a 3rd generation Argentinean of German descent. His parents and his grandparents were very diligent in maintaining their German identity by registering their children as Germans, sending them to German school (some 84 in Argentina) and educated to a standard approved by the German education ministry and having the children go to Germany for tertiary education. He did the same for his children. So they family are all Argentinean and German citizens. Not too many people who moved to the U.S. bothered to do that.
Thanks a lot for the information, YVR Cockroach, and everyone else! That is pretty crazy that three generations of Argentines held on to their German heritage.

I've been reading through the German Nationality Act:
http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/StAG.htm It's not really entertaining reading, kind of like watching water boil, but nonetheless it was informative.

And it looks like in Germany, as long as your parent was born before 1993 (which is obviously the case, in my situation), you have a case as long as you can prove that someone in your paternal line is/was German, never voluntarily served in an army, and was never actively became naturalized in another country..
.... and that irrespective of place of birth, citizenship is always transferred through men. Sorry, ladies, all women are SOL under German law, unless the mother happened to have you out of wedlock... then that opens another can of worms.



I guess there's nothing left to do but try to apply. All they could do is reject the application, right?
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Old Jan 28, 11, 12:36 pm
  #48  
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Good luck and let us know what you find out. It will be interesting to know if the German government considers your male forebears to be German citizens automatically upon birth or only if and from when they had applied or been registered.
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Old Jan 30, 11, 6:16 am
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is there any country in Europe that hands out passports easily and allows Americans to keep their passport? my wife is US citizen and has been living in Germany for over 7 years, so she is a permanent resident and could receive German citizenship, but as dual is not allowed she would not risk losing her US passport due to close family ties.
As a non EU citizen she is, however, discriminated in Germany as she cannot become a "Beamter" (state functioneer) which in her profession means about 1k euro less pay per month! Family roots are German, Austria/Hungary.
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Old Jan 30, 11, 6:51 am
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Did she talked with German authorities about keeping her US citizenship? If Germans can take the US citizenship and keeping their German one it might work the other way around, too. But I wouldn't tell the authorities about the payment because this could have negative influence. Also being a Beamter has many more benefits than just payment.
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Old Jan 30, 11, 7:13 am
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Almost everyone I know who has multiple citizenships simply does not discuss any other than the one of the country in which one is at the time. Many naturalization processes require a technical renunciation even though their own laws do not reject multiple citizenship. Both Brazil and the US are in that category, but I do not know about Germany.

"Careful - if they're over 18 (not too wild a guess methinks ), they could lose their U.S. citizenship unter INA 349 "

Please read ALL the comments, not just the top one. You will note that the presumption of the US is that you wish to retain, not lose, your US citizenship. In practice it is quite difficult to lose US citizenship. One must apply for a renunciation at a US consulate. At the one in Rio de Janeiro there is a wait of over a year for an appointment to renounce. Even though naturalizing is "potential" renunciation, they do not want that to happen. Keep in mind that the US taxes citizens and permanent residents on the basis of status, not residency. They go to great lengths to avoid loss of a taxpayer.
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Old Jan 30, 11, 6:52 pm
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Originally Posted by jbcarioca View Post
Almost everyone I know who has multiple citizenships simply does not discuss any other than the one of the country in which one is at the time. Many naturalization processes require a technical renunciation even though their own laws do not reject multiple citizenship. Both Brazil and the US are in that category, but I do not know about Germany.
Yes becoming a naturalized citizen of another country presents real problems, but the OP was considering claiming a right as a natural-born citizen of Germany and the U.S., i.e., born in the U.S. and therefore a natural-born American, and born abroad of German citizens (if it could be established that all the generations since his ancestors' emigration from Germany remained German citizens), i.e, a natural-born citizen of Germany as well. Not being naturalized into a second nationality would obviate the need to renounce anything, since it wasn't his doing that made him both a German and an American. I know from a family member that this works (born in the U.S. while parents [yes, only one generation] were both still German citizens).

Last edited by Track; Jan 30, 11 at 6:59 pm
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Old Jan 30, 11, 8:40 pm
  #53  
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Originally Posted by jbcarioca View Post
Almost everyone I know who has multiple citizenships simply does not discuss any other than the one of the country in which one is at the time.
As Track noted, it all depends on the countries concerned. It appears that for Indian and Austrian citizens residing in Canada, the respective consulates demand that a negative proof of acquiring Canadian citizenship is undertaken before passports are renewed. I am sure other countries that forbid dual citizenship may make their Canadian-resident citizens undergo the same. Austria has since allowed a valid Permanent Card to be that proof. Austria also allows children of citizens born abroad to hold Austrian as well as citizenship of the host country.
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Old Jan 31, 11, 4:05 am
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Germany1001 View Post
.... and that irrespective of place of birth, citizenship is always transferred through men. Sorry, ladies, all women are SOL under German law, unless the mother happened to have you out of wedlock... then that opens another can of worms.
As part of the celebrations of the international women's year in 1975 Germany fixed that anomaly. Since 1976 women can pass on their German citizenship regardless of marital status or citizenship of the father. I became German on application this way as I was born before 1976.

German authorities are very sensitive about second citizenships as many migrants maintained their old passports after becoming Germans thru naturalisation in order to retain rights of property and the like in their home countries. So it happened to me that I had to sign a form stating that I didn't renew a foreign passport or join a foreign army since receiving my last passport when I applied for my new passport.
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Old Jan 31, 11, 5:31 am
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Originally Posted by tom tulpe View Post
Careful - if they're over 18 (not too wild a guess methinks ), they could lose their U.S. citizenship unter INA 349
This is actually pretty hard to do, because you have to 'perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship.' [bolding mine] Without the intent, the rest is irrelevant.

Actually, the OP does not even plan to do any of the items listed in the bullet points on the page (at least based on what the OP has said). It isn't naturalization the OP is seeking, but merely establishing a pre-existing citizenship.
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Old Feb 8, 11, 3:38 pm
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If you read this thread and you think you need to PM me for help to get you German citizenship or referring you to a lawyer, you are wrong.

Please stop sending me PM for this topic. I am not an expert, I just helped that one close friend who has a pretty strong case

(sorry, many people refer to this thread and send me PMs)
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Old Jun 9, 11, 4:59 pm
  #57  
 
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German Citizenship

Hello,

This is a great forum and I am glad to see there are others that are having similar challenges. I have been trying for over 5 years now with considerable resistance from Cologne. My situation is as follows:

My father's parents are polish originally living near the border. During WWII the town was destroyed and they were moved to Germany to work in a camp. My father was born in Germany in 1941, and I have all the documentation to prove such, as well as, my Grandparent's documentation. He came through ellis island I believe in 1947. I was born in the US.

I started out at the local consulate, then upon further guidance was escalated to the SF regional Consulate, and after additional letters and paper work my application was rejected by Cologne stating they needed more documentation around my father's parents original home town. I am currently at a loss here because the town no longer exists, and I believe the boundaries have been redrawn after WWII. I am hoping some one in this forum might be able to shed some light on possible next steps or suggestions?

thank you
Greg
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Old Jun 10, 11, 12:19 am
  #58  
 
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Welcome to Flyertalk, jugnage.

You have clearly done a fair bit of research - but you don't say whether or not you have consulted with a specialist immigration/nationality lawyer in Germany.f

I am not a lawyer, but from the details you have provided it looks to me like you may not in fact be entitled to German citizenship. Some countries grant citizenship to anyone born on their soil, others grant citizenship based on descent rather than place of birth. Germany, by and large, falls into the latter category - so if your grandparents were Polish (as opposed to Germans living in a place that is now Polish) then it is quite possible that you are not entitled to German citizenship.

I am being deliberately vague here because (a) as stated above, IANAL and (b) German laws have changed several times over the years. I suggest you get legal advice from Germany, if you have not done so already, as you may well be wasting your time.

Have you investigated the possibility of getting Polish citizenship?
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Old Jun 10, 11, 9:26 am
  #59  
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I do agree to Aviatrix. From what I read your grandparents were Polish, so was your father. And even if you father had been German, he would have most likely given up his citizenship when applying for a US passport. And most likely, your father held US and not German or Polish citizenship when you were born. You certainly need a specialist lawyer, but from my layman's perspective I have doubts that you qualify for German citizenship.
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Old Jun 10, 11, 3:28 pm
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Father was German

Thank you for your rapid response. I apologize for the confusion, so if I might shed more light.

1) yes my grandparents were of Polish nationality

2) My father was born in Germany, has German birth certificate and nationality according to the documents I have, including US Immigration documentation when he arrived

3) My father remained a German Citizen until 2005, when he finally applied for US Citizenship and passport. I started the application process about a year before he applied for the US citizenship.


I am hoping that might help.

Thanks
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