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Getting German citizenship/passport

Getting German citizenship/passport

Old Jul 31, 08, 8:48 am
  #31  
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Well dual or even tri citizenship are benificial.
For instance if you own property in Mexico, becoming a retired Mexican citizen is good to cut costs of the middle an trustee. Plus then you will own it, not lease it via a 3rd party.
EU citizenship is great if you live in the EU. Living in Poland and having Polish passport and ID card makes taking care of anything in Poland a lot easier.
Of course same goes in the USA with a USA citizenship.
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Old Jul 31, 08, 9:07 am
  #32  
 
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There is only one point you have to keep in mind - income taxes. For example if you are a US citizen you have to pay income tax in the US on your world wide income. So if you are for example an US-German citizen living and working in Germany you have to pay income taxes in Germany and the US. That's why Germany and the US have an agreement so you don't have to pay twice. So always make sure that you know the income tax rules of the countries you have the citizenship of.
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Old Jul 31, 08, 1:05 pm
  #33  
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... and be aware of national service rules, be aware of family law, of law of inheritance, be aware what passport you take for your US trip.....

it is not easier with a bunch of passports....
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Old Jul 31, 08, 6:01 pm
  #34  
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If a German emigre who voluntarily relinquished his German citizenship (during the Bundesrepublik era) subsequently got his citizenship back (I understand it's permissible now), would the adult child who was born while the father was not a German citizen be able to claim German citizenship?
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Old Aug 7, 08, 3:11 am
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pulled that straight from the embassy's website.



Originally Posted by caspritz78 View Post
BIMMERKID2 explained the process in a lot of detail. As the others said. Dual citizenship is something the German law doesn't permit.

There are cases where Turkish citizens who took the German citizenship where stripped of the German citizenship because they reapplied for a Turkish passport after they got the German citizenship.

The only Dual Citizenship I know of that is legal is a US-German citizenship. Before accepting the US citizenship you can file an application to keep your German citizenship but only if you still have ties to Germany. For example close family still living in Germany or working for a German company that needs you to travel a lot to Germany. You also loose your German citizenship if you take the US citizenship before your application is granted.
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Old Jan 27, 11, 10:57 am
  #36  
 
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German passport through great-grandfather!?

Hello all!

I am in a similar situation. My great grandfather was born in 1880s in Germany. He went to the United States at age 16. He was never naturalized as a US citizen, and he died still being German. None of his descendants were naturalized in any other country, as they were natural born citizens...

Prior to great-grandpa's death, he and his wife had a son, my grandfather born during World War I. He then had a child, my parent, who had me. I am born in the 1980's.

I believe that because my great grandfather never gave up his citizenship, he must have transferred it to my grandfather at birth. I have US Census data from 1920 indicating that grandpa was born already, and GreatGrandpa is still alien resident German.

Because of his Germanness, greatgrandpa was exempt from the draft in WWI and never did US military service or any other act that would make him lose his German citizenship. My grandfather had illness, and never served in WWII, as he was also exempt from the draft.

If indeed my grandpa would be German due to this jus sanguinis (right of blood), am I correct to believe that he would then have transferred it to my parent at birth, who then transferred German citizenship on to me?? Although it has been a long time, is there any limit to how far back jus sanguinis can go??




What do you guys think!?!
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Old Jan 27, 11, 11:05 am
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Originally Posted by Germany1001 View Post
Although it has been a long time, is there any limit to how far back jus sanguinis can go??
Maybe Adam and Eve? Or perhaps even the Dinosaurs?
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Old Jan 27, 11, 3:21 pm
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Originally Posted by Germany1001 View Post
What do you guys think!?!
I doubt you can get German citizenship this way. Especially when the citizenship is transferred by the father only German authorities are strict an can demand a proof of fathership. Additionally I think the German law has some clause that in order to obtain the citizenship from your parents they have to register you within a certain time after birth with the German embassy. Only exception from this are cases where the Third Reich stripped a person of his German citizenship. In this case I believe they or their children can apply for German citizenship.
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Old Jan 27, 11, 3:47 pm
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Originally Posted by caspritz78 View Post
I doubt you can get German citizenship this way. Especially when the citizenship is transferred by the father only German authorities are strict an can demand a proof of fathership.
As I understand it... when it comes to nationality this only applies when a child was born to unmarried parents. Children born to unmarried parents before 1975 had to take their mothers' nationality. Children born to unmarried parents since 1975 may obtain German citizenship from their fathers but only if paternity has been proven.

Additionally I think the German law has some clause that in order to obtain the citizenship from your parents they have to register you within a certain time after birth with the German embassy. Only exception from this are cases where the Third Reich stripped a person of his German citizenship. In this case I believe they or their children can apply for German citizenship.
Generally correct but there are/were a number of other exceptions. For example, up until a few years ago ethnic Germans from the former Soviet Union were entitled to German citizenship, as were the descendents of ethnic Germans who stayed behind in areas the became part of Poland after WWII.

To get back to Germany1001's situation - as I understand it someone born outside Germany can claim German nationality only if one of their parents was a German citizen at the time of their birth. And I think "was a German citizen" means just that - someone who was registered as a German citizen, not someone whose great-grandfather emigrated 100+ years ago.
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Old Jan 27, 11, 10:32 pm
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Red face

Fair enough.

But....

What does Jus Sanguinis mean, then?
I thought it was that citizenship is transferred by parentage or bloodline, not place of birth...

My understanding was:
Great-grandfather is german makes grandfather german at birth irrespective of registration.
Grandfather german makes father german..
father german, makes me German!? ....



From Germany's Basic law:

Article 116 - Definition of “German”; restoration of citizenship
(1) Unless otherwise provided by a law, a German within the meaning of this Basic Law is a person who possesses German citizenship or who has been admitted to the territory of the German Reich within the boundaries of December 31, 1937 as a refugee or expellee of German ethnic origin or as the spouse or descendant of such person.
(2) Former German citizens who between January 30, 1933 and May 8, 1945 were deprived of their citizenship on political, racial, or religious grounds, and their descendants, shall on application have their citizenship restored. They shall be deemed never to have been deprived of their citizenship if they have established their domicile in Germany after May 8, 1945 and have not expressed a contrary intention.


Last edited by Germany1001; Jan 27, 11 at 10:36 pm Reason: Found something..
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Old Jan 27, 11, 11:15 pm
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Cool

Originally Posted by caspritz78 View Post
Especially when the citizenship is transferred by the father only German authorities are strict an can demand a proof of fathership.
it's 100% Paternal line, and I have birth/marriage/death certificates for everybody involved.

And for all of the "REAL" Germans out there, could one of you please explain what is Beibehaltungsgenehmigung? I'm not even sure how to PRONOUNCE that.
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Old Jan 28, 11, 1:40 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Germany1001 View Post
What does Jus Sanguinis mean, then?
I thought it was that citizenship is transferred by parentage or bloodline, not place of birth...

My understanding was:
Great-grandfather is german makes grandfather german at birth irrespective of registration.
Grandfather german makes father german..
father german, makes me German!? ....
It isn't like Italy where nearly anyone who can prove descent from someone who was living in Italy at the time of the formation of the Republic (and thus a citizen) can claim Italian citizenship (prior to formation doesn't count as there was no Italy) because all the descendants of the Italian citizen are automatically considered Italian citizens.

If Germany uses the same system as Austria (also jus saguinis but hopefully a different interpretation for Germany), you may be out of luck. It is my understanding that the 1st generation of descendants of an Austrian-born Austrian citizen can claim citizenship at a later date and don't need prior registration because the parent (or father) was Austrian already and all they need to do it prove that. However, the 2nd (or subsequent) generation may only receive citizenship if the prior generation who were not born in Austria (so not automatically considered Austrians) but became citizens by descent (through formal request) requests it.

So if Germany uses the same rules, your grandfather would have been (or if still alive, still is) eligible to claim German citizenship at any time based on his father's (your greatgrandfather's) German citizenship at the time of his (your grandfather's) birth. However, your father could only obtain German citizenship if your grandfather requested it.

In the case of my wife's family, her father was Austrian by birth and all his descendants were born outside Austria. If his grandsons wanted Austrian citizenship, they could not claim it based solely on their grandfather's citizenship (because their father isn't formally Austrian). Their father had to apply for and receive Austrian citizenship and then request it for his sons. If their father had died before obtaining Austrian citizenship, they would have no claim.

So, if your grandfather is still alive, have him apply for German citizenship if he doesn't already have it, and have him request if for your father, who in turn will do the same for you. If you grandfather is not alive, you can only hope he was registered as a German citizen and that you can find proof.

I don't think Article 116 which you quoted applies to you. Your greatgrandfather isn't considered to be descended from those sent to settle countries outside the current Germany nor were they expelled or forced to leave by the Third Reich.

Only way to find out is to talk to a consular official.

I have a friend who is a 3rd generation Argentinean of German descent. His parents and his grandparents were very diligent in maintaining their German identity by registering their children as Germans, sending them to German school (some 84 in Argentina) and educated to a standard approved by the German education ministry and having the children go to Germany for tertiary education. He did the same for his children. So they family are all Argentinean and German citizens. Not too many people who moved to the U.S. bothered to do that.


As aside, I met an old friend a few months ago and found out something else about German citizenship laws. As far as losing (and regaining) German citizenship goes, a native-born German citizen loses citizenship if they become a citizen of another country. However, if they lost that citizenship as minors (because their parents took out foreign citizenship), they can claim it back. My friend reobtained her German citizenship but her parents permanently lost theirs. She also retained her foreign citizenship (lives in Germany) and has passed it on to her children. Her husband is a child of German citizens but because he was born in a neighbouring country, is a citizen of that neighbouring country and as well as of Germany, so their children have a claim to that citizenship without jeopardising their German and their other citizenship.

Last edited by YVR Cockroach; Jan 28, 11 at 1:51 am
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Old Jan 28, 11, 2:55 am
  #43  
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The German Embassy and Consulates deal with the issue on a regular basis as obviously there are many many descendants of German immigrants over a few centuries in the country (not all from 1933-45). So the web pages of the Embassy is a good read:

http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/u...tizenship.html

Some more info on the topic by the Interior Ministry (the guys who actually approve any such applications):
http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_165/sid_E...html?nn=439476

If any of your ancestors actively pursued naturalisation in the US or anywhere else they automatically lost the German citizenship. Article 116 section 2 of the constitution tries to fix the stupid laws the Nazis passed to take away German citizenship from people they didn't think should be 'Germans'.
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Old Jan 28, 11, 4:59 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach View Post
As aside, I met an old friend a few months ago and found out something else about German citizenship laws. As far as losing (and regaining) German citizenship goes, a native-born German citizen loses citizenship if they become a citizen of another country.
Not quite. Germans only lose their German citizenship if they actively apply for citizenship of another country - but not if it is given to them automatically, or forced upon them (for example, on marriage).

There are some countries that will automatically give citizenship to foreign-born wives (usually just wives, not husbands!), and that will not recognise a foreign-born wife's original citizenship. If a woman automatically acquires her husband's citizenship on marriage she does not lose her German citizenship.

(There are also certain circumstances where a German citizen will not lose their citizenship even if they actively apply for another - for example, Germans can now apply for another EU citizenship without losing their German citizenship)
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Old Jan 28, 11, 7:12 am
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Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach View Post
So, if your grandfather is still alive, have him apply for German citizenship if he doesn't already have it, and have him request if for your father, who in turn will do the same for you. If you grandfather is not alive, you can only hope he was registered as a German citizen and that you can find proof.
Careful - if they're over 18 (not too wild a guess methinks ), they could lose their U.S. citizenship unter INA 349
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