delawareguy

A Courtyard or Hampton Inn wouldn't even survive in a seedy area like New Castle. Frontier doesn't even keep their crews at the Quality Inn, they keep them in a Sheraton a couple miles away. I think the people flying into ILG wouldn't even consider staying in an airport hotel in the first place. Either their going to Philly, where they would rent a car, call a cab or Delaware Express or take DART Bus 25 to the Amtrak Station. Or they are visiting Wilmington area and they would stay at a hotel in downtown Wilmington. The fact the airport is off DuPont Highway is a good thing because it provides 5 minute access to 95,295,495,141,40,1. I will admit Lot C is in bad shape but until Frontier shows interest in expanding ILG, the DRBA won't make any improvements. I don't think Frontier would be interested in ACY, it defeats their whole strategy of using airports with no competition, let alone going into an airport with their ultra low cost competitor. Also, ACY would create a sort of triangle over South Jersey with ILG and TTN that the market could not support. I have noticed United's advertising as well, but I have also noticed some Frontier billboards advertising ILG and/or TTN as well as ads in the News Journal, DART buses and one commercial for ILG, which really surprised me.

rtalk25

Well, I disagree with this comment:
" it defeats their whole strategy of using airports with no competition, let alone going into an airport with their ultra low cost competitor. Also, ACY would create a sort of triangle over South Jersey with ILG and TTN that the market could not support."

Spirit only has Florida service from ACY, and the MYR flight. The ORD/DTW/BOS/ATL service is just for the summer. There are a number of markets like CLE/PIT/DEN without service and Chicago is less than six months from Spirit. Westbound from ACY is lacking so there is no real competition on that front. United's fares are unreasonable for the market and with United aircraft and limited seating, many seats reserved for connecting pax, it won't compete.

Southwest and AirTran combined used to have 60-70+ departures from PHL and ACY/ABE. I think it's down to 25 now. While Frontier has filled some void via TTN and ILG, Spirit has added 2.5 departures in PHL, Virgin 3 flights, Alaska 1 flight to SEA, and B6 has 5 on PHL-BOS, it's not like PHL is overflowing with low fare competition that the western US has or any area with a sizeable WN or B6 presence.

delawareguy

I honestly do not feel that ACY would support this kind of service, the fact that Spirit can only offer seasonal service to DTW, MDW while Frontier can offer year round, almost daily service from TTN on these routes shows me that ACY cannot support service from Frontier to these smaller cities. And in my opinion, ACY is not as great an alternative to PHL as TTN,ILG since its farther from Philly as well as entire I 95 corridor and they charge for parking.

rtalk25

I think it's just different strategies for Spirit and Frontier.

Spirit offers 3x daily on ACY-FLL during the peak season along with 1x ACY-PBI. Frontier offered less than 1x daily out of TTN to So. Florida. Does this mean ACY's 30 mile radius region can support so much Ft. Lauderdale but TTN's 30 mile radius region cannot? I don't believe so. I think ACY is really pulling from all of So. and Central NJ and parts of PA and gets pax traffic in from So. Florida as well.

I think it's just one carrier saturating one market, and another (Frontier) going for another strategy that is many cities out of TTN, but lower frequency. Given Spirit's lack of a comprehensive network and market selection to select markets only, I think Frontier and Spirit can co-exist if they flew different routes.

The ACY airport has jitney service to huge hotels, more rental car options, and the AC Rail Line which is accessible into Philly. Parking is $1 more than TTN, but I don't think TTN's new parking costs have adversely hampered F9 sales at TTN.

There is overlap from ACY and TTN of course, but F9 might be limited at TTN with limited gates and being at both airports might be a good thing like WN at multiple airports in So.Cal and the Bay Area. Frontier might peak at 15 daily departures or so out of TTN. Perhaps F9 will just peak at that many departures, and look at opportunities elsewhere around the country like CLE.

EricR111

It would seem to me that what differentiates ILG to its benefit over TTN is the longer runway, which can handle an A320 to Denver non-stop. The DEN flights are doing well, although they are only 2x/week in winter, going to 3x/week. I think F9 should increase the frequency to at least 5-6x/week, with the plane then going on to a desirable destination - probably LAS and/or LAX (maybe 3x/week each). Would people stay on a plane one-stop to get to either of those destinations if it saves money and avoids PHL? I bet some would. Plus, you would get all those who would switch at Denver for other locations in the F9 network.

ILG could also handle longer flights to sunny destinations. These would either have to be within American jurisdiction (SJU or the USVI) or have pre-clearance, such as Nassau in the Bahamas (which you CAN reach from TTN). These first two are about the same distance as Denver.

delawareguy

Lately, I have been disappointed with Frontier's slow growth from ILG. It seems like most of the growth in their a320 routes has been from Cleveland, lately. MYR, LAS, PHX, FLL,BOS are all great options. Maybe Frontier is waiting for ILG to update its terminal but TTN didn't do that until they had 11 destinations and Frontier had signed a lease. I am curious to see if Frontier will be making any ILG announcements soon, they haven't made one since October while TTN seems to add new destinations every month.

Jerseyguy

EricR111: TTN is currently working on making the 6K runway work for flights to DEN, but ILG will be able to have flights to further destinations such as PHX or LAX. Re: pre-clearance destinations even with pre-clearance CBP requires some customs present at the destination airport in case there is a high risk situation where CBP has the option of requiring the addtional screening. I know TTN has a customs agent that works at the FBO for private planes, not sure if ILG does and I'm not 100% sure if that a token presence is enough.

Delewareguy: The Destination of the month club is not as nice as it seems. We're always having trouble with parking and space in the gate area and it seems like the wheels of bureaucracy turn too slow for my taste. Plus you have the destination that I've always wanted because it would be helpful to open up some more touristy destinations via connections: DEN. They have their markets for people that are maybe going to see relatives but most of these places are 1-2 day tourist trips with only 1 or 2 decent attractions to see. I'd give up half of these destinations for DEN. I'd be happy with FLA cities, MDW, ATL and DEN.

UA Fan

Do people think that ILG could attract some of the Baltimore crowd? Looks like it is 70 miles.

delawareguy

UA Fan: ILG is not listed as an alternate for Baltimore on Frontier's website, but on travel websites such kayak, Expedia, etc. ILG is listed as an alternate airport to BWI, in fact I remember reading a news story of somebody flying into ILG to go to DC, so yeah, ILG does work as an alternative to BWI. There are a lot of tolls though.

Jerseyguy: I see what you mean, I shouldn't complain since this is the first service here in 5 years.

rtalk25

http://www.flyfrontier.com/plan-book...ules/route-map

They actually do make the association which is kinda of a stretch in my opinon:
Baltimore, MD (BWI) Wilmington/Philadelphia area, DE (ILG) — 1 hour, 20 minutes away

I think BWI is closer to DCA where there is DCA-DEN that it offers, but they are associating BWI to ILG.

I know WN has been pricing BWI-MDW rather high, atleast last year. This year they might have realized that NK's entrance on that route might need them to fare more competitively.

Frontier is launching MDT-MDW. The MDT-MDW flight goes past Labor Day, so I wonder if it might last longer than just summer seasonal. I know for many in northern Baltimore County, MDT is an easy drive and is low in tolls (or can be toll free). I suppose ILG's free parking can offset highway tolls, but the ILG area is somewhat seedy. I think having a good hotel by the airport itself is good for those coming from long distances and fly out first thing, or for when flights are delayed and arrive really late. Unfortunately ILG lacks that amenity along with curbside taxi service. I could imagine anyone from Baltimore going up there must think that driving up there must really be worth it to save a buck.

UA Fan

I hope Frontier picks either ILG or TTN (hopefully TTN).

rtalk25

I think there is some value for F9 to fly routes like TTN-CLE. Have you seen the prices on PHL-CLE or PHL-MDW-CLE (on WN)? These are very high fare routes and F9 is offering a low fare alternative which is great for pax from CLE and NJ. The same applies for TTN-CLT and TTN-RDU to Charlotte and Raleigh.

However, what kind of annoys me is the new F9 doesn't want to run any thru "direct" flights via CLE.

Direct flights via CLE could be like TTN-CLE-SEA/DEN/PHX/LAS/LAX/SFO even Florida, as CLE becomes a focus and gains nonstops to these cities. Those would help establish the TTN-CLE route and make it daily, which will get more pax. It'd also help F9's long distance CLE routes that have seats filled by thru pax coming from eastwards.

However, some other routes like TTN-BNA are unconvincing to me. I know that F9 does well in BNA, and it does well in TTN, so there there is loyalty to F9 and it's a way of plane utilization, but WN has very low fares, and three flights daily from PHL-BNA and it even covers EWR-BNA. I believe US/AA is matching these fares as well out of PHL. So, what's the benefit for the pax of flying F9 on this route, when they are limited to three flights a week and change fees that might exceed a one-way ticket cost? I suppose F9 will see. WN PHL-STL fares are low for the length of flight (over 800 miles one-way), so I'm curious how F9 will do on that one like BNA.

WN flies PHL-MDW but that's an irregular high fare route. It flies PHL-ATL (fare varies) but not EWR-ATL, so I see the value of TTN-ATL. I also see value in TTN-DTW as it's a link to Michigan, and DL and US have high fares as well. CVG is another unique one with no WN or B6, so theoretically if service is adequate, a CVG-TTN could be a a low fare link to NYC and Philly regions.

I'm not convinced on TTN-IND and TTN-MKE so much as they are not even top 20 MSA markets, not very destinational, flying to generally colder city, and the ties to the NJ region might not be as strong. Plus they are driveable to MDW where a TTN-MDW (for MKE) or TTN-CVG (for IND), rent a car can adequately suffice. I think TTN-MSP is valuable as fares are generally high, but it's a long flight so costs will be higher for F9.

davywavy

"Annoys"?

Low frequency is an essential element of the restructure at Frontier (and the success at TTN) and that low frequency plays against connections - they may work in one direction but not necessarily the return. I's very early days at CLE and Frontier does not fly CLE-SFO or LAX or LAS and both PHX and SEA are seasonal. The airline does offer a TTN-CLE-DEN on some days, with a 40 minute layover, but the return is a 5 hour layover.

Frontier is not about frequency - nor road warriors - and to structure the airline for those connections plays exactly against what has turned its fortunes around.

Connection possibilities at CLE may come as - and if - the airline grows there, but the last thing they want is a replay of what happened at MKE.

EricR111

Another question about TTN - with all the talk of Frontier expanding there, is there any possibility of another airline coming in?

If you assume 15 flights/day from the present TTN terminal, might some airline try to get in on F9's turf - maybe one of the other ULCCs - just to keep them from locking out competitors?

Unofficially, it seems that they have a bit of a modus vivendi - Spirit at ACY, Frontier at TTN, and Allegiant at ABE.

The other possibility might be some small airline - Pen Air for example - flying Saab 340s to Boston, since F9 does not look like it would fly there.

Finally, if F9 does not expand soon at ILG, might Spirit or Allegiant challenge them?

delawareguy

EricR111: If Frontier doesn't expand more from ILG(though I hope they do), I see a lot of opportunity for Allegiant, with MYR, FLL, maybe LAS(but CEO Andrew Levy said recently they see most of their short term growth to be on the East Coast hub/focus cities) Spirit, not so much, with ACY, PHL and to a lesser extent BWI.

UA Fan: I doubt Frontier will pick either ILG or TTN because ILG has a longer runway that can handle longer/a320 routes. I have a feeling ILG is here to stay for at least the short term.

rtalk25: Again, I do not think a nice hotel near ILG is really necessary. Most airport hotels are pretty seedy. The Quality Inn is a 3 star hotel. There is a 5 star Sheraton a mile down the road that the flight crews stay at.