Frontier DEN-CVG, FAT, EUG
 

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...ml?ana=RSS_wid

This feels more like "classic" F9 routing than recent forays into small airports on the east coast. Interesting to note that DAY didn't work out because of WN.

CVG-DEN-CVG can even be done as a day trip for business travelers.

There was a bitty more to it than that. Yes, Southwest starting DEN-DAY caused problems, but Frontier has to have an aircraft at CVG for the Apple flights to CUN and PUJ. They had been doing this by repo, but that was expensive and it's obviously cheaper to shift the DAY flights to CVG.

Same thing happened at CAK and CLE. The A320 at CLE not only serves CLE-CUN/PUJ but also PHL-CUN/PUJ and makes a (short) repo to PIT for those CUN/PUJ flights.

They had been getting the aircraft to CLE with a repo flight from DEN, but was expensive and Southwest at CAK became the kicker for Frontier going to CLE.

CLE proved to be a smart move and they're hoping the same will be true for CVG. Early indications are good - the Cincinnati press reported the first few CVG-DEN flights as sold out.

Is it possible we may see F9 on DEN-PIT? The N/S fares on UA and WN are consistently high (at least by my sampling) and losing CAK service leaves a hole on the route map for western PA. Are there other regional airports F9 may try DEN service like YNG or LBE?

I think it is unlikely with Southwest flying DEN-PIT, but anything is possible, I guess.

TTN-PIT, perhaps? Or ILG-PIT? I don't know the market.

I would love a DEN-PIT option, and yes I also find the fares for UA and WN for that route crazy high. I don't believe there are any plans currently though.

I'm not following this.

Every day a Frontier plane from DEN arrives at CVG at 11:35 p.m. and departs the next morning at 6:15 a.m. back to DEN. So under the DEN-CVG schedule, the only time a Frontier plane is in CVG is from 11:35 p.m. to 6:15 a.m.

Meanwhile, CVG-CUN is a there-and-back daytime flight on Saturdays, and CVG-PUJ is a there-and-back daytime flight on Sundays. So how does Frontier pull this off w/o doing a repo flight? I can understand how it might consolidate ground ops, but seems like they'll still need a repo flight.

CVG doesn't have to use the same plane back and forth from DEN, CUN or to PUJ. For example. Below is how CUN works with flights, by what I was able to get on a Saturday. The plane that arrives from DEN overnights.

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/1716/schedulei.png

Correct. I'm not a Schedule Wallah because it is quite complex and my eye glazes over at the thought but once an aircraft is at CLE or CVG, it is in the Apple flights system.

There are still a few short repo flights, such as MDW-ORD. So an A319 might fly DEN-MDW-ORD-PUJ-ORD (with MDW-ORD as a repo) but not back - ORD-MDW - until the next day to go back to DEN.

On some flights - ORD-STL-HUX/LIR - the ORD-STL segments carry (Apple) ORD pax to connect to flights at STL, which flights (STL-HUX/LIR) become both Apple charter and Frontier scheduled.

But that still doesn't explain where the plane comes from that departs CVG at 9:30 for CUN. The plane that arrived the previous night presumably left for DEN earlier in the morning. So there was still a repo flight from XXX-CVG.

Or for that matter, what happens to the plane that arrives from CUN into CVG at 15:47? It's not needed for the next morning's flight to DEN, so it must be repo'd somewhere else.

And if the repo flights are still needed, then it's not an explanation for why the DAY flights shifted to CVG.

Here's the flight schedule for CVG when PUJ is operating. Frontier overnights two planes in CVG on Saturday.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7108/schedulecvg.png

I get that.

But I was responding to the poster who said that "Frontier has to have an aircraft at CVG for the Apple flights to CUN and PUJ. They had been doing this by repo, but that was expensive and it's obviously cheaper to shift the DAY flights to CVG."

[emphasis mine]

The implication is that shifting the DAY flights to CVG avoids the repo move. So again, given the DEN-CVG schedule, how does Frontier avoid the repo move?

The answer, so far, seems to be that they don't avoid a repo move. So all I'm saying is that avoiding a repo move is not a reason for the shift. I'm not knocking their decision, though.

As I said, I don't do schedules, but it is one the of reasons Daniel Shurz gave for the move in a letter to the staff.

Of course, there is usually more than one reason for anything, just as avoiding Southwest on DEN-DAY and consolidation at CVG (with the Apple flights) is also part of it, as happened at CLE - which DEN-CLE repo flights have (mostly) ended.

With the schedule as it is now there is no repo move, being that they're not flying an empty plane form DAY-CVG simply for the fact of getting it there. Flying scheduled passenger service from DEN-CVG, potentially makes more money than say flying DEN-DAY-CVG, the last leg being an empty plane. Taking off burns a lot of fuel!

All the flights that I list out in the schedule tree are scheduled passenger service that you can find using the online schedules page. They're bookable flights.
http://www.flyfrontier.com/plan-book...line-schedules

** I built the source for Frontier that feeds the online schedule search.

Consolidation at CVG makes sense, in terms of more efficient use of ground staff/counter space. That I can buy. And of course airlines will rarely admit publicly that they're backing away from competition.

Obviously there won't be a repo move from DAY to CVG since Frontier no longer serves DAY. But there's gotta be a repo move from somewhere since the CUN and PUJ flights don't happen during the overnight hours when the plane from DEN is on the ground in CVG. That's a fact. Alas, I think we're just not communicating, so I'll drop it. Cheers.