Select Seating
 

New Seat Maps are now available offering Select seating in Rows 5-9 for an additional $5.00.


Apparently, all part of becoming a ULCC.

SELECT Seating
The rows just behind STRETCH seating and in front of the exit rows are SELECT seating, which features up to 31 inches of seat pitch. On our Frontier Express aircraft that do not have STRETCH seating, SELECT seating is available in the front rows and exit rows. SELECT seating offers the opportunity to sit nearer to the front of the plane, and you’ll be in the second group to board, known as “Zone 2.” An upgrade to SELECT seating varies in price based on the type of fare you purchase. If you choose not to assign a SELECT seat in advance, you can be assigned to any remaining SELECT seats at no additional fee when your flight opens for check-in 24 hours before the scheduled departure.

Looks like they are furhter un-bundling their seating.

Before today, the forward rows behind the Stretch seats (or all forward rows on the ERJ/Q400) were unavailable for economy passengers until check in.

The only way to advance-reserve those seats (prior to today) would be to book Classic, or to be an Ascent member. (Actually booking Classic Plus or being Summit opens those seats up too, but those people can get Stretch.)

Now, they are letting people pay an extra fee to pre-reserve those seats before check-in. They're free at check in.

The place where I think this *may* generate some revenue is for people who book economy after the economy seats are already taken. Prior to today, if you bought economy and the economy seats were all assigned, you couldn't get a seat assignment until check in. Now, you have the option of paying to upgrade to the select section and getting a seat assignment ahead of time.

They've been reserving the first few rows after Stretch for quite awhile as only bookable at check in unless you had elite status or bought Classic / Classic Plus. This allows anybody to get those seats ahead of check in...for a fee.

On a related note, I really don't like the visual appearance of the new seat maps. The different symbols don't line up cleanly from top to bottom which makes the maps look messy. The colors (medium blue for an occupied seat, sky blue for an unoccupied Stretch seat, pine green with a visually-heavy star for an unoccupied select seat) are a very ugly combination in my opinion. But I'll get used to them.

For what it's worth, here's a breakdown of seats:

A319
30 Stretch seats (including exit)
24 Select seats
84 conventional seats

A320
36 Stretch seats (including exit)
30 Select seats
96 conventional seats

E190
15 or 20 Stretch seats (including exit)
20 Select seats
59 or 64 conventional seats

It's a negative to me because before today as Ascent I could reserve those Select seats for my entire party at booking (whether they were Summit, Ascent, or nothing) but now I have to pay $5 per seat extra for that area or sit behind row 13. Oh well, at least I still get 2 free bags! I guess I can ask at check-in maybe to move up?

I agree that the new seat selection UI isn't pretty. Wish they would run things through a design team before rolling them out, because the color scheme is a step backward from what they had before.

Heck, they could've redone the color scheme slightly and colored occupied seats the shade of blue they used before, economy the shade of blue they used before, SELECT a shade of green and STRETCH a golden hue. Nice and readable and i wouldn't look half bad either.

Besides, right now on first glance (since there are stars on SELECT and pluses on STRETCH) you'd think that SELECT might even be superior to STRETCH, when in fact it isn't..

I should take a look and see how much SELECT costs on longer-haul flights (e.g. DEN-FAI). STRETCH is $50 for those segments, so SELECT at $5 might be such a small portion of a person's ticket that they'd just buy up.

One big question I have is whether seat pitch behind SELECT will be tightened to increase passenger revenues...and increase the value of SELECT. It would be mildly entertaining to have a three-class all-economy layout in F9 birds (though they'd have to tighten pitch significantly to add another row without impacting seats closer to the front).

Looks like SELECT is $5 in Economy even on a five-and-change-hour flight like DEN-FAI.

I think you should still be able to book your entire party in the Select section as long as you're still on the same confirmation code. I do that all the time with my SO who is not Summit.

What I don't like is that if there is a separate confirmation code, then the seating benefit does not transfer to your travel companion. If we're both traveling on a paid fare, or if we're both traveling on a free ticket (using miles from one account or the other) we can book on the same itin/confirmation code. But if I pay for my ticket and use my miles for a companion ticket, or if we each book our own free ticket using our own miles, we have to be booked on separate itins and thus my F benefits don't transfer. What I've done to get around this is book one way travel. If we're both using miles, for example, I'll book two one-way tickets using my miles (on a single intinerary) and then book two return tickets (on a single itinerary) using my SO's miles. Then I call into the elite FF line and ask to be re-seated on that return trip. Even though it wasn't my miles used for that return trip, as a Summit I can be pre-reserved in Stretch and so can my travel companion.

Unless I'm missing something, you should still be able to pre-reserve your whole party in the Select section when you book as long as you're on the same booking.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's hard on the eyes. And I'm totally with you that Select looks better than Stretch in terms of the color / symbol / visual weight.


That's a really good question. We've heard another row is coming to the A320, and likely to the A319 after that. Without any added space, the upgrade fee of $5 seems about right in my book because sitting closer to the front and boarding earlier isn't all that valuable. Or course Southwest charges $10 to get in an early boarding group, yes? If so, $5 is a bargain.

I'm with you there. You'd think they could have just added a few colors to the full filled seats they had before. Now it looks like someone photoshopped symbols into the seat outlines (like they couldn't find the original artwork and went off a screenshot).

I like this new seating area. They are opening opportunities for extra revenue that doesn't offset benefits that anyone else had before, which is win win to me. Like the pancakes, I like them adding features to gain extra revenue versus taking away features that were previously "free".

I could see them taking an inch from STRETCH and giving some extra pitch to SELECT. I love STRETCH but I doubt I'd miss an extra inch. Maybe they increase the benefits of STRETCH and make it more like Airtran's business class, and then make SELECT the new STRETCH.

Siegal did a brief interview on Fox Six last evening. He mentioned more changes in the coming months along with fees similar to those on Spirit and Alleigiant.

He said LCCs like Southwest and Jetblue are really low cost once you take a look at their fares.

He's been making the media rounds, since the beginning of the month.

http://business-news.thestreet.com/d...hy-do-list-6/1

Denver's NBC affiliate states "As for job cuts, Siegel doesn't expect there to be many as he looks for other ways to save money.

In fact, he continues to negotiate bringing 500 jobs back to Denver if the company can secure some tax breaks from the city and state."

A fully functional website might help him achieve his goal.

Of the three trips I booked in the last few days, two did not require a call to customer service to complete the booking. As we all know, these problems date back some time.

I agree that the new seat maps are very unclear. For a customer going through the seat selection process, it might appear that only the white-shaded seats are available for selection, even for those booking a Classic or Classic Plus ticket, or for those with elite status.

It looks like not much thought was put into the format, or that it was revised very quickly to start generating the additional rev immediately.

http://www.frontierairlines.com/flig...eating-options

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Dare I ask why? Is the crystal call foresee 28' of leg room?

Why else would they say "up to"?

Not going to fit many seats on if we all get 28 feet of legroom :D.

The pitch will probably follow what the USA3000 birds have. I doubt they'll get more the 168 seats on the 320.

Actually, the seats behind the "middle" section are going to 29" which BTW, just happens to be the same as Spirit. That is B-A-D.

The following message is displayed at http://www.frontierairlines.com/flig...tretch-seating, which is the STRETCH seating page, as well as the STRETCH FAQ page www.frontierairlines.com/faqs/stretch-faqs.

Change is in the works.

I just tried a test booking online for a flight in May, I'm Ascent and flying with my non-status girlfriend.

1. It's showing a $5 up-charge for seats in the front of the aircraft for BOTH of us.

2. Even if that's a bug, it looks likely that I will have to now pay the extra $5 for my girlfriend's seat as I'm just a lowly ASCENT member.

I've been a loyal Frontier traveler for more than 10 years, was Summit for many of those due to business travel, now that I'm working locally I've maintained Ascent out of my own pocket. First, I lose access to Exit rows as Frontier re-classifies them as Stretch (can't pre-book, and they're almost always sold now). Now, they reclassify the front of the plane as well, meaning if I'm traveling with a companion, it's the back of the 'bus for me. Really looking forward to that if they reduce the seat pitch to 28".

I know they need to generate more revenue but they should really consider not doing so at the expense of their frequent travelers... for the first time in years I'm considering booking this flight on United instead, and giving up on maintaining status for next year.

I hear you loud and clear DenverF9Flier. Experienced the same thing recently when trying to bring the family up to Stretch.

The aggravating thing is when we checked in at the airport (had luggage) roughly 60 minutes before the flight, there were 20 seats available in Stretch. Of course, I could have gone up for free, but they wanted to charge for the wife and kid. Decided against it and kept our seats in row 6. When we got on the plane, every single seat in Stretch was taken. I figure they were just given to those folks who didn't have a seat assignment when they checked in. Maddening to say the least.

I really hope they don't start nickel and diming us Ascents and start relegating us to 29" seat pitch seats.

Unfortunately I'm mistaken -- it's only Summit members for whom elite benefits are also given to travel companions.

:-(

But Is that a change? The rows behind Stretch have long been unavailable to pre-reservation on economy fares for non-elite passengers. The new change this week is that now non-elite economy passengers can pre-reserve them for $5, and they branded it.

The other thing discussed here is the pitch, all (as far as I can tell) based on the comment that Select has a pitch up to 31". The pitch on the newly-branded Select seats isn't going to be any different than it's been all along. Why? Well, fhe Stretch section isn't going anywhere, and of course the location of exit row is fixed, too. So there's only X feet for the Select rows, no more and no less. So why would Frontier say "up to 31 inches"? Perhaps it's because the Q400 and ERJ aircraft, which do have Select seats for sale, have only 30" pitch.

Now there's been word an extra row is coming to the A320. And there's been talk (although nothing firm or official that I've seen) that perhaps an extra row is coming to the A319 too. If they add a row, the space obviously has to come from the section behind exit. We don't know how tight the perceived room will be if that comes to pass. When they squeezed Stretch into the E170...a plane which was all-31" prior to adding several inches to rows 1-4...they did so by putting slim line seats in. The leg room wasn't bad because of those seats, but unfortunately the seats themselves were notably underpaded. Hopefully they don't take that route to add a row but keep legroom reasonable.

NOTE...must have accidentally added that symbol to the post...don't look for any hidden meaning!

Its probably a bug with your status, I would report it to them. As for changing the exit rows to STRETCH, it hurts you as Ascent slightly but it also enhances Summit at the same time. They undoubtedly value your travel, but they value Summit even more.

All that has been made official (in the conference call) is all of the A320s will have 168 seats by May. I seriously doubt they'll be getting rid of STRETCH and even if they were to get slimmer seats, they wouldn't help in front of the exit row for the same reasons the pitch isn't changing now. I could see them getting slimmer seats for the back to save on weight but I still don't know if they'd be able to squeeze another row out, so it probably wouldn't be worth it, especially since most of the A320s have pretty much brand new seats as it is.

I think they were looking at getting another row in the A319s by removing one of the lavs. I didn't hear if it went any further than that, but again I don't think they could get another row in otherwise unless pitch went way down, got completely new seats, and removed STRETCH. I don't see them doing any of those right now as it is a big cost upfront to reconfigure everything yet again. That money would probably be better spent finding a way to get the new wingtips on their current fleet: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2009/1...5AE0VD20091115. Could easily find another $10-15million per year savings there without affecting passenger comfort.

New seat maps show Airbus aircraft with 30" to 32" of pitch for Select.
http://www.frontierairlines.com/who-...et/airbus-a320

Thanks for finding and posting this. I had not looked for this info on the Frontier site and am happy to see it here. Unfortunately it often contradicts itself on pitch by an inch or so. For example, the A320 page "specification" section says that Stretch is 36" and 31" elsewhere, but the numbers next to the map say Stretch is 36" (except exit is 38"), Select is 30-31", and it's 30" elsewhere. Which is more accurate?

Anyway, here's a quick summary of the mainline fleet:

Stretch
A320 36" (38" Exit)
A319 36" (38" Exit)
A318 36" (38" Exit)
E190 36" (39.5" Exit)

Select
A320 30-31"
A319 31"
A318 31-32"
E190 31"

Standard
A320 30"
A319 30-31"
A318 30-31"
E190 30-31" (aircraft with all 2x2)
E190 31" (ex-US aircraft with 1x2 Stretch and 2x2 elsewhere)

A few things to note:

--The A320 map shows the 168-seat configuration, which includes the extra row. So the bulk of the A320 is at 30"

--No rows are being moved as a part of the Select designation -- the legroom in any particular row this week is the same as it was last week. (The added row on the 320 is not soming new with the "Select" rollout.)

--In cases where they give a range (such as 30-31") there's nothing to suggest how much is one versus the other, or where. A 30-31" pitch might be just a few at 30 and most at 31, or vice versa.

--The importance of seat design is really driven home to me by seeing both the 1x2 E190 and the 2x2 E190 are 36" in Stretch. Stretch in a 1x2 cabin is good but not excessive in legroom, while Stretch on the 2x2 planes is much more roomy. That's apparently because the ex-US first class seats used on the 1x2 Stretch sections are more bulky and/or not well contoured for legroom compared to the standard 2x2 seats used in the Stretch section of other E190's.

Those of you who remember the original all-2x2 717's on Midwest may remember that legroom wasn't bad but wasn't exactly luxurious in spite of the 34" pitch...and that's because of the bulky seats they used. (IIRC when they went to the mixed cabin the Signature section went to 35".) I used to be a big user of SeatGuru but not so much anymore...especially when it comes to trying to make judgements on pitch. The numbers don't really tell you what perceived legroom is because so much can depend on seat design. If the A320 is going from 31" to 30" to add that extra row, and if the seats are the same, people are getting an inch less of legroom. But is that 30" pitch the same experience as 30" on the Q400, or a Hawaiian 767-300 or an AirTran 717? Maybe, mabye not.

It's not very satisfying or precise, but its hard to know without experiencing it.

My 2 cents: if 30" is as low as F9 goes seat pitch wise, with 31" available in SELECT as long as you know which row to pick, I have nothing to complain about, particularly if F9 can price itself a few bucks below UA/WN's standard fares.

Honestly, 30" isn't the end of the world considering the thickness of seats on Airbii; the UA 320 I flew on Saturday felt a little more comfortable than an A319 padding-wise, but less comfortable seat-pitch-wise, to the point that the legroom I had was equivalent to 30" in a Frontier A319.

Worst seat pitch to comfort ratio ever actually goes to a nonreclining ahead-of-exit-row seat in a DL 757. Ooooold-style seats meant 31" was quite cramped, a feeling that I haven't even matched on a CR7.

One more thing: E90s, as long as they stay in the fleet, won't have significantly decreased seat pitch, ever...no use in adding a row or two if it violates a scope clause and requires another FA, so 99 seats it is...

Wow I was all over the place with that post. From a taller person's perspective, $5 is a bargain to gain an extra inch, especially on longer flights.

Maybe I was wrong... There are 16 rows aft of the exit rows on the A320, if they took 2" from each row they could fit another in. I could see this happening, if they only had to replace the back half of the plane. Glad I have status... :D

Now if they'd just order some A321s...

Anything's possible, but the A320 seating expansion increased capacity from 162 to 168. The map shown (with 30" pitch in the Standard section) has 28 rows and seats 168. So this is the result of adding the extra row. I don't think there are any plans to add yet another row and increase capacity to 174.

As others have stated, we will be adding a row of seats to bring our A320 aircraft to a 168 seat capacity. With this reconfiguration, the pitch in some rows will be reduced to 30 inches. There will not be any rows on these aircraft with less than 30 inches of pitch after this reconfiguration. This reconfiguration makes the A320 fleet consistent with our existing A318 and A319 aircraft that already have STANDARD seating rows at 30 to 31 inch pitch.

Also, to clarify previous posts, Ascent level EarlyReturns members and their companions booked in the same reservation will continue to have complimentary access to SELECT seats at the time of purchase. We introduced SELECT seats as a new benefit for Economy ticket holders to purchase access to these rows that were previously only available to Classic tickets and Ascent/Summit level EarlyReturns members. Pricing the SELECT seats also provides a clearer benefit for calculating the value of our Classic fare option.

Thanks,

Dan Krause
Vice President, Marketing and Customer Experience
Frontier Airlines

Thanks for the clarification Dan, and welcome to Flyertalk!

I would like to be the second to welcome you to being an active participant in the F9 forum...Mike beat me to it!

As you know, we are certainly not reserved here expressing our viewpoints about the shortcomings and strengths of Frontier, as well as offering our unsolicited advice as to how the airline can improve its product.

We appreciate your ear to our sounding board and look forward to your continued contributions.

Thank you Dan, for clearing up the speculation as well as your presence here representing Frontier. I can confirm that I just booked a flight for myself and my girlfriend last night, and was able to choose SELECT seats at the time of booking for both of us (although it indicated that these would cost $5, we were not charged).

Great hearing from you Dan. It's good to know someone in the "know" is listening.

It appears that Classic is no longer a flat $25 surcharge over Economy; it apparently depends on the route. The fare difference does not appear to be linked to availability, nor distance.

Many routes now have a $30 increase over Economy, some have a $10-$20 difference, and a few still have the $25 additional cost above Economy.

All routes checked are direct flights.

Is this somehow related to the introduction of SELECT seating or just another way to increase revenue?

I would bet that like STRETCH, it is tied to the historical uptake on a given route. A route that has a lot of Classic demand might be higher while a route with little demand might be skewed lower. Definitely just another way to earn more revenue if they can get more people buying Classic. They might lose a little upfront versus someone who gets economy and checks bags, but if they can introduce them to Classic for only $10 and they like it next time it might be $15. It also forces the person to buy on the website which saves them money versus a listing on GDS.

I don't understand why someone would spend $5.00 on a Select Seat. Just purchase a Classic fare, get the Select seat and the checked bags with the 25% mileage bonus.

Huh. Just looked at ABQ-DEN. $10. For that price, I'll buy Classic just on the chance I might need to check a bag. Before a $25 increase for a 60 minute flight wasn't worth it. I'm afraid people will find it confusing because Classic fares are tied to Select seats and Economy fares tied to standard seats. I think one all encompassing term for fare and seat wound be beneficial.

That's part of the idea with Select I believe. They might not expect to get a whole lot of $5 seat assignments, but it bundles in a perceived $5 benefit to Classic, whereas before you got the seating benefit but there was no "value" tied to it. You're right, you'd be stupid not to get a classic fare, especially if you check bags. I think they are really focused on driving people to book through the website and buy the higher fares, even if they might take a hit on them in the short term.

Hopefully one day you'll be able to buy "upgrades" on the website before your flight. Maybe someone booked on Travelocity, it would be cool if F9 sent them an email with an offer to upgrade to Classic for $20. Or even better, offered a free upgrade in exchange for joining EarlyReturns.

Actually I like that you can be flexible. You can buy the package, or you can choose to buy each perk separately. Its the best of both worlds, but they could do a better job of selling it.