CAL PHL FLYER

With several airlines going out of business..Anyone have any guesses when Frontier will go out of business?..Sounds like the credit card companies move was a smart one given all the airlines that have gone aout of business..Credit card companies are just trying to protect thier money,just smart business..@:-)

CAL PHL FLYER

Frontier says they are bankrupt for different reasons than others were..Yeah..Hello..Fuel is going to wipe out some airlines..This just sounds like the natural evolution of things..Looks like mergers are again on the horizon..Should be an interesting few weeks ahead..Wasnt it about 1 week after ATA declared Ch.11 that they were shutdown?

soitgoes

Lots of airlines have emerged from bankruptcy without ceasing operations. Maybe Frontier can do so as well.

BearX220

If UA can fly through bankruptcy for literally years, remain the terrible operation it is, and not cease operations, I would be very optimistic about F9's chances.

bmvaughn

In 1986

Ohhh... you mean the current one

wboll

If you look at their BK filing they do have a cash cushion plus their debt is not that bad.

steex

From my understanding, Frontier is just practicing smart business as well by using their (only) legal means to put a moratorium on the creditor's changes. I don't think the creditor should change its terms with Frontier as a reaction to the circumstances of other airlines, but that is their prerogative of course. The situation seems to be that Frontier could've continued to do business as usual without the change in terms, but since that change was about to be imposed, they found shelter in Chapter 11 specifically to avoid the fate of Aloha and ATA.

For now, I think conditions are favorable for Frontier to continue to grace the skies with its menagerie of tails. If their cash/debt/performance figures are really as they say they are, they may simply use Chapter 11 to renegotiate with their creditors and perhaps seek a few ways to become more streamlined and emerge a stronger airline. ^

username

When pigs fly

Do they have a plane with a pig on the tail?

Seriously, I bought a ticket Thursday evening and 4 hours later, I saw on the news they filed for Chapter 11. Luckily, the travel is soon so I am not worried.

What I wonder is "do you trust what management says" and if doing this will end up scaring away passengers and lead them down the wrong path.

soitgoes

That really is Frontier's biggest risk, I think: that people will refrain from buying tickets whenever there is a choice of another carrier.

psubill78

Bingo.

Honestly, I'd never consider buying a ticket on a rinky-dink airline that is in the process of bankruptcy dealings.... US Air, United, sure.... no way frontier!

BearX220

What's the textbook definition of "rinky-dink"? Froniter is a coast-to-coast operation with dozens of stations and thousands of pax daily.

JaggedMind

Does anyone have their flight count out of DEN? They have roughly a quarter of the gates at Denver (certainly not a rinky-dink airport).

mjcasta

Well, three factors would answer this question -

1. Hysteria - The "when" and "what if" conversations will push business away

2. Liquidity - This being the principle reason for the CH.11 filing.

3. Investor Senitment - If the big bucks get skitsh, see points 1 & 2

Frontier is easily one of the healthier carriers in the industry and the CH. 11 filing is utilized as an instrument to remain healthy.

Just imagine your bank saying "Joe, I am sorry; but, starting April 15 we are going to hold 50% of your paycheck." Not quite an apples to apples view; but, offers a bit of perspective.

Essentially, First Data was forcing F9 to fly as a scheduled charter carrier would, using the holdback as a defacto escrow. If First Data feels this to be a business interest decision, they should apply the concept to all carriers which they service.

Outside of the fact that F9 is not designed to accommodate this accounting principle, it is a crippling disadvantage when toe to toe against WN and UA.

Daze

Based on the surly crews and aircraft with broken seats, inoperative IFE, and hydraulic fluid staining the wings that I encountered on US and UA while they were bankrupt, I would definitely call them rinky dink. F9, OTOH, has well maintained aircraft and generally friendly crews, and indeed out of DEN has more lift to many cities than any other airline, including UA or WN. F9 has not yet earned the subjective title of "rinky dink".

jeffhacker

ATA shut down and filed for bankruptcy almost simultaneously (they finished off some flights from Hawaii back to the Mainland). Aloha filed about a week before shutting down.