WHBM, can you give any source for that information? that's not what we were told in Alsace ...

Yes, the detail I have given is in several places, including a substantial technical article on TGV-Est in the June "Modern Railways" magazine, which is the definitive monthly journal for rail industry professionals in the UK and which explains the fine detail of the TGV-Est rolling stock, as well as the infrastructure, funding, etc.

Just look at the trains, they are single-deck TGV cars. Alstom have not built single-deck TGV cars for the past 10-15 years, only the newer double-deck ones you will have seen coming into use elsewhere in France.

Have just been on Air France this afternoon and I see in the mag that Christian Lacroix has also done a makeover of the BritAir logo and uniforms, etc. Obviously a busy man.

thank you ^
hmm... I just hold in my hand a reservation from Paris to Strasbourg in the lower deck. And I was always told that the regular TGV was unable to use the German rail-voltage system. Have they been modified?

Yes, the locomotives at each end of some of the TGV-Est trains are the one thing that had to be renewed as SNCF previously only had a handful of TGVs which suited the German electric system (same system in Switzerland too) as well as the French one.

So of the rebuilt TGVs on TGV-Est, a number have been given new locomotives suitable for Germany, but only sufficient to cover the through trains to Stuttgart/Munich/Zurich. The other trains in use have the existing locomotives and cannot run through into Germany/Switzerland. SNCF have always been experts in having a range of different electric specs for outwardly-identical TGVs to cover running into the various different countries, and organising them appropriately. For the tech buffs the voltage is 15kV in Germany and 25kV in France, and the frequency is different as well, which means duplicated electrical equipment is needed on locomotives which run through from one system to another.

The displaced TGV locomotives have in exchange gone onto the new double-deck trains being introduced elsewhere, running only within France.

Now I'm intrigued that you have a reservation on the "lower deck" to Strasbourg, as this implies it is a double-deck TGV train, which were not described as coming onto the new line at all. They fit, fine, but the plan was not to use them on TGV-Est at this stage.

WHBM - do you know what happens on the border between Lorraine and Alsace on the LGV? I remember that in Alsace, trains run on the right, unlike the rest of France where (unusually for mainland Europe), they run on the right. The haul out to Strasbourg used to be quite a miserable one, 4 hours on an ancient Corail, crammed full of soldiers, which would then be further delayed just outside Metz waiting to switch tracks...

Is the voltage the same in Alsace?

Alsace was French up to 1870 when the railways were first built but they were simplistic and often single-track. Between 1870 and 1918 when Alsace was German the railways were substantially enhanced with the German standard of running on the right.

The area was sufficiently large that it was best left as it was after 1918 rather than conversion. Trains from France had always changed sides at the old border anyway, it was just the border itself disappeared. On the busiest routes flyovers were built, elsewhere it was just done on the flat. You will find the same at Belgian/Netherlands borders and elsewhere.

The new TGV-Est is left hand running throughout the new alignment, there is a special flyover built at Baudrecourt near Strasbourg where it finally merges back onto the old route.

http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...interfaces.php

Railway running on left/right usually follows the national road arrangement, but there are plenty of exceptions worldwide. France (except Alsace) is one. Others in Europe are Belgium, Switzerland and Italy, so you could go all the way from Scotland to the bottom of Italy on trains running on the left, provided that you route via Geneva and not through Alsace! Even in the USA where right-hand running is normal the major Chicago & North Western Railway (now incorporated in the Union Pacific since the 1980s) ran on the left, and their old routes (including the main Union Pacific trunk lines from Chicago to Omaha and to Minneapolis) still do so.

http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...p_europe.php#3

The Paris Metro runs on the right, the opposite to the main SNCF system, although the RER runs on the left because of the way it is integrated with old SNCF lines. In contrast there are a number of sections of the London Underground where trains run on the right, parts of the Northern, Victoria and Central lines, for various historic reasons.

The electricity system in Alsace is 25,000 volts AC, the same as elsewhere in France, as when the railways were electrified Alsace was French. Actually there is a substantial part of thr French railways electrified at quite a different system, 1,500 volts DC, including the old main lines from Paris to Marseilles and Bordeaux. These were done in the 1920s-30s and have never been changed, the 25,000 volt system, now a worldwide standard, was not even devised until the 1950s. All the TGV routes are 25,000 volts but the busiest route from Paris to Lyon starts out from Gare du Lyon on the old 1,500 volt system and changes over, quite seamlessly, at the start of the new TGV alignment in the Paris outer suburbs. Most TGV trains can handle both systems. Likewise quite a lot of the RER is on the old system and its trains change from one system to another at various points. The train buffs notice the lights go out for a second then back on again at the changeover point, that is all.

Changing from one electric system to another has a range of different approaches worldwide that engineers have devised, it is a shame that at Domodossola on the Swiss/Italian border the old arrangement has gone; there used to be no wires at all through the centre of the station, trains just coasted to a stop off the electricity, then an old steam locomotive would attach to the electric engine, pull it off the train and out of the station under the opposite electric wires, then with lots of steam and smoke give it a really good shove up to about 40 mph and let go, allowing the electric engine to whizz back through the station on its own, coasting until it got back under its own electric system again. Only in Italy !

I rode on the Paris-Reims line last week. Only 45 minutes--allowed me to go to Reims in the afternoon for a tour of two cellars and the cathedral before heading back to Paris.

The interiors were quite attractive, clean, and comfortable. In 2nd class, the odd seats are actually orange, with the majority being purple. Interestingly enough, I also rode on one of these new cars on the Paris-Tours line. The car had been on the East line (still had promotional materials from the East run).

Seating charts for TGV?
 

I'm booking Paris-Tarbes for myself and my son (to watch the Tour de France in the Pyrenees) and have been debating whether to "splurge" and spend the extra 30 euros for 1st class or not. Might be nice having a power plug at the seat for my laptop. And, a number of people have suggested the 1st class car is quieter, which might help for sleeping (which, after a very long journey, we might want to do!). But, got a question about seating.

When I bring up the seats on SNCF, it shows-

Coach 11 - Seat 54 Lower deck - Separate seat
Coach 11 - Seat 51 Lower deck - Separate seat

Are those actually adjacent seats? How does the numbering work? And is there a way to change seats, or are you stuck with what the website gives you?

Thanks-

Those seats should be facing each other on the regular TGV Atlantique configuration.

You may try to change seats later but you'll have to do it through an sales agent at any railway station.

http://www.voyages-sncf.com/leisure/..._choisir_place

Here's a description of the seating terms used (in French, sorry!). Two seats facing would be "duo vis à vis", while a seat "isolé solo" would be a single seat next to a window.

How to change your seat choices:

Il n’est pas possible de modifier vos options de placement depuis le site.
Pour changer votre billet de train nous vous invitons :

1) A vérifier que votre billet de train est échangeable
2) A effectuer votre changement via un autre canal de vente :

- Par téléphone à Ligne Directe au 36 35 (0.34EUR/min) si vous avez choisi le retrait en gare et que vos billets ne sont pas encore émis.
- En gare ou boutique SNCF, munis de vos billets.


You would need to have refundable tickets. If you reserved tickets to be picked up at the station, you could call 3635 to change your seats. Otherwise, if you already have your tickets, you could change them in a train station or SNCF boutique.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking after a bit more research (and finding the part about configuring the seats to face each other).

Drove to Reims from CDG this past Saturday, then back to the West side of Paris. The drive along the A4 autoroute has plenty of views of the new LGV ("Ligne à Grande Vitesse"). It's been interesting to see the line get built over the past few years. I was concerned that it would appear as more of a scar on the countryside, but it would appear that the landscaping/vegetation work has been pretty well done.

Driving East, I saw a German ICE train coming up an incline at speed heading to Paris. Also saw several East and West-bound TGVs. On the return drive, I kept my eyes on the road as traffic back to Paris was heavier.

The winemaker I visited that afternoon in Mailly-Champagne told me about part of his land having been taken by DUP (expropriation) to allow the LGV through as it passes South of Reims, between the city and the Montagne de Reims. He lost some of his Champagne-producing vines in the village of Sillery. This 90 year-old basically shrugged and said "That's the cost of progress, I guess". :D

It's also interesting to see where the rail line right-of-way was cut out of the white chalk underburden. The whiteness of the rock is very bright ! Those who have visited Champagne cellars know all about the importance of chalk caves to the making of that delicious wine. A good place to see the cut is out near the new Leclerc hyper-marché where N51 heads towards Épernay, just East of the new Champagne-Ardenne TGV station.

I've been using the TGV for the past 12 years and love it. From Paris (Gare du Nord, Gare de Lyon and Gare Montparnasse) I've been to Lyon (Part-Dieu, Perrache and St-Exupéry), Dijon, Le Creusot TGV, Lille (Flandres and Europe), Douai, Lens, Bordeaux St-Jean, Marseille St-Charles, Aix-en-Provence TGV, Avignon TGV and Quimper. I've also taken Thalys to Brussels-Midi and Eurostar to London-Waterloo.

The TGV is a very civilized way to travel in either 1st or 2nd class. :)

I made the journey in from Colmar about ten days ago and I'm still impressed with how comfortable and easy it was. Very comfortable seats in 1. An onward taxi service was available for those requesting it (only in 1), with drivers waiting the arriving train on the platform, as the forecourt of the Gare de l'Est is still being worked on. Very unusual feeling to be barrelling into Ile de France from the East as one does when eg. passing CDG from the North. Then up the stairs to the Gare du Nord, enough time for a bavette à l'échalotte, frites and a verre and then onto the Thalys to Amsterdam. It was a little more expensive than the Corail train to Brussels but not much longer and much more comfortable.

Enjoy Strasbourg and Alsace, it is one of my favourite places!

ps: to the geeks thanks for the interesting read

My daughter and I just returned from 7 days in France (and 3 in London) and took the TGV from Paris to Bordeaux and back while there. We booked first class on the SNCF site (in French - got a great deal that is not available either on Rail Europe or the SNCF English site). The only second class service I have to compare it to is the Eurostar and I can say that first class is much nicer if you can afford it (or get a deal like we did). The seating is three across (2 + 1) rather than four across (2 + 2) so the seats are bigger and more comfortable. There are a number of seating options: duo cote a cote (2 seats next to each other), club duo (2 facing seats with a table), and club quatre (4 seats facing 2 and 2 with a table). We did the cote a cote one way and the club quatre the other way. We much preferred the cote a cote and would definitely choose that again.

So, my recommendation is first class if you can afford it or get a deal but second class is OK if not.

No the trains, or at least the coaches are not new. The single level coaches are refurbished (though in a what looks like a dreadful 1970s style to me), attached to new engines, which allow for the higher speed.