kthpence

Hi Everyone,

I was recently granted a long-stay visitor visa for France, and because of unforeseen events, I have to arrive in France a week before my visa begins (on April 23rd instead of the 30th). I emailed the consulate here in San Francisco asking what the protocol is, and whether or not this is a problem (I think I can arrive as a visitor and then exit the Schengen and go back to France once my visa expires).

A few questions:

1. Can I enter France before my visa begins?
2. If I can enter as a visitor, do I have to enter on the exact day my visa begins? (I ask this because I'm wondering if I can leave France w/in 90 days and the re-enter the Schengen during that time, rather than as soon as I arrive in France).
3. Can the Consulate change the date of my arrival of my visa (I assume there is an electronic component to the visa that an immigration officer could see?)
4. Has anyone dealt with a similar situation to this firsthand?

Thanks in advance for all the help.

Doc Savage

What passport do you have?

I think the consulate is the best source of information. Give them a call.

kthpence

I have an American passport. I currently left a message for them, hopefully they'll get back to be asap.

stimpy

As an American you can enter anytime. The only restriction is that you leave Schengen before 90 days. So if you are able to pop out of the Schengen zone before 90 days are up, then you can go out and come back. No visa is required for this activity.

But back to your basic question, for people from countries that cannot visit Europe without a visa, the authorities can be picky on the entry date. But I would not expect a problem for an American, especially if you enter via CDG. They might not even open or stamp your passport and instead just wave you through.

kthpence

Sorry, I think maybe I wasn't clear enough in my original post, but I am an American passport holder, and have been given a year's time as a visitor in France (so long as I do some formalities with the OFII in France upon arrival) and have a visa for this time. My question was whether or not I could enter the Schengen before my visa start date and have my visa start on the day I entered, not the one dated on my visa.

Regardless, I received an answer from the consulate - I can enter on the 23rd as a visitor, and I'll need to go to the UK (or the Channel Islands, which is what I'll be doing since I'll be in Brittany), and come back on the day my visa begins or w/in 5 days of the start-date of my visa.

For visas, it's extremely important that it's stamped at the immigration control as I have to prove to the OFII that I arrived in France the day my visa began, or else I can face extreme penalties or be deported...also, to your first point, technically, you are only allowed 90 days w/in a 180 day period, how that is enforced, however, is an entirely different thing all together.

stut

As this thread is about France, I'm moving it to the dedicated France forum. Please continue to follow this thread in the France forum.

stut
Moderator
Europe Forum

Tamino

kthpence is correct. A 90 day visa is valid for any 90 days within a rolling 180 day period. Exiting a Schengen country and then reentering does not begin a new 90 day period.

However, passport or visa questions should be directed to the relevant consulate or embassy.

stimpy

In that case I was an outlaw for many years. As were a good number of my American colleagues. Never a question from the immigration authorities.

BadgerBoi

Whether you or your colleagues were caught out or not, that is the law for bearers of most passports who don't need a visa to enter the Schengen zone.

kthpence

I've heard that each country has it's own rules when enforcing the 90/180 day rule...France is one of the more lax countries, compared to The Netherlands and Spain where they are super intense at border control.

Mountain Trader

Yes, as Badger Boi suggests, the lack of enforcement as to your or others' situation should mean nothing to those trying to comply and measuring their risk if they do not.

A friend of mine stayed in France for over 15 years with no visa, nothing except an American passport. He could have written the same 'nothing happened to me' post. Then a drunk driver ran into his car and he was badly hurt. Also bad were the questions by police, his car and health insurance, French immigration. And the tax authorities-seems his overstay made him a resident of France for tax purposes and since he hadn't filed French tax returns, he had not declared and paid French taxes on his income. Also, he had voided his right under French law to transfer real estate under US rather than Napoleanic law. The result of that is his kids claimed and won partial rights to his French real estate.

My guess is that one way or another, stamping little pieces of paper in your passport will soon be replaced by data that has been scanned into the system for some time. That will be bad day for the crowd who came for 89 days and stayed forever (or so they thought).

GUWonder

Even now, not all US visitors to Schengen need a visa to stay more than 90 days in any rolling 180 day period. Most may need one to avoid falling out of compliance, but for those who may not it all comes down to the applicable circumstances for the individual entering and exiting.

Many US violators of the Schengen limits -- which have not been entirely uniformly interpreted by national authorities for the entirety of the history of the Schengen Zone -- seem to have been able to get away with it without consequence and no questions. But not everybody.

BadgerBoi

Mountain Trader's post pretty much says it all. The possible consequences really mean it's not worth it.

GUWonder

Rational judgments aren't based merely on possible consequences; rather they are best based upon expected outcome, something that is also a function of the probabilities applicable to the various realistic possibilities.

Sometimes the "possible consequences" really mean it's worth it, especially given not all possibilities are of equal likelihood to all other possibilities. For some US persons, overstaying may actually be "worth 'it', as it all comes down to the applicable circumstances for the individual entering and exiting.

Mountain Trader

And one must be able to measure the likelihood of each possible outcome. My visa has been swiped for each entry into France for years. It would not be that tough to run a recap for any traveler using that data.

Put another way, enforcement tomorrow may not be predicted by enforcement yesterday. And in many cases, none of this matters until one day, like for my friend mentioned up thread, it matters a whole lot.