MichaelBrighton

The BBC reported yesterday (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23619783) that French police are increasing their campaign against speeding drivers. The article is specifically about British drivers (logical since it's a British news organisation), but refers several times to "foreign drivers", so any non-French, non-EU drivers might do well to pay attention.

:D!

Well, they are targeting British cars rather than British drivers... most non-EU drivers in France are probably going to be driving French-registered cars, or perhaps Andorran/Monagesque (the article says that Swiss cars are not going to be especially targeted)

MichaelBrighton

Well, I think the main point is that the French police are going after more drivers who break the speed limit. As the article points out, only five percent of the drivers on the road in the EU are foreign, but they account for 15 percent of speeding violations. With the new rules, autos registered in a cooperating EU country will be able to pay the fine "at home", but drivers from uncooperating countries like the UK, Republic of Ireland and Denmark will have to pay on the spot.

I would expect that non-EU drivers in a French-registered auto would also have to pay on the spot.

BigLar

Got to be careful here.

What they're really saying is that 15 percent of those who are ticketed are foreigners.

In this country (US), a very large proportion of incarcerated persons are African-Americans, way out of proportion to their population. From that statistic alone one could conclude either:

1. African-Americans are much more likely to commit crimes than others, or
2. African-Americans are much more likely to be arrested/convicted than others.

MichaelBrighton

That's an interesting point, but consider that most, if not all, of those foreign drivers are in autos with an EU registration. So, the police could not target foreigners based on the auto.

The question is, I suppose, do they let the local speeders go without a fine? Personally, I would doubt it, but I don't know how you could research something like that.

snorton

Same here, same here. Also was too fast driving between Marseille and Toulon last month.

kirkhere

I understand they are strictly prohibited and you will not only have your unit confiscated you may also be subject to prosecution. I read that is is even true if it is in your luggage.

kirkhere

I understand that radar detectors are strictly prohibited and you will not only have your unit confiscated you may also be subject to prosecution. I read that is is even true if it is in your luggage.

menton1

Apparently, it seems that if you lose your original notice of fine (as I did) it is just about IMPOSSIBLE to pay the fines!!

I did everything (see my posts above) even went to the French Consulate in NYC, but nobody could find my violations so hence I could not pay the fine!

The French person told me at the consulate that if I was stopped the next time the police have no system to see that I had unpaid fines. (Makes sense, if they can't find it for me to pay, the police can't find it either!)

I went again to France in Jule/July, was uneventful. Of course, I made sure that I did not go even 1 km over the speed limit.

SeamasterLux

Really wonder who told you that. Most people have a "COYOTE" on board and they've been made "legal" by being updated, which means instead of telling you exactly where the speedometer is, it will give you a 500m range.
I've been stopped by the police several times for paper control or others, never been bothered because I had my "Coyote" and it's quite obviously placed in my car.

At one point, there was a non-sense discussion that all GPS with radar detection would be prohibited as well (can't imagine the commercial crash and scandal). In the end, all constructors have updated the software so that it would be legal by giving the area where the radar is but not the exact spot.

Now the real dangers in France are:
- On board speedometers that police have been implementing and it works awfully well
- "Radars tronçons" that compute your average speed between two points. It's awfully good as well.

iahphx

Is there any more information about whether Americans "need" to pay these French speeding tickets?

I believe I have one, because I noticed a random 20 euro charge on my credit card from the car rental company and called them. They said they had to get back to me on the specifics, but that "these charges are usually the administrative fee for speeding tickets."

I then found this thread, and it seems like the agent knows what she's talking about.

If you're an int'l traveler, this hyper electronic enforcement is a real PITA. I haven't driven in France in several years, and didn't realize what the situation was. I had a Mercedes of all things -- and had just been driving in Germany -- so I wasn't being at all vigilant to keep it EXACTLY to the speed limit on the French motorways. At least I wasn't driving "German autobahn style" ("speed limits -- we don't have those") more like "American style" (where almost nobody drives exactly the speed limit on a highway -- we all know that we won't get a ticket if we got less than 10 mph over).

I guess I'll have to see what the total damage is, but I'm certainly not inclined to pay the fines if I really don't have to. It seems like a certain percentage of readers get sanctimonious on these speeding threads (I just found a useless argumentative one on tripadvisor, where about half the people say "you broke the law, you should pay"), but I don't see it that way. This looks like "gotcha revenue collection" to me, and it obviously impacts tourists a lot more than locals because the locals quickly figure out what's going on.

With the advent of all this electronic enforcement, I realize I now have to go online and figure out "the situation" before driving in any foreign country. Since the rules aren't intuitive (like an Argentine would laugh if you actually obeyed one of their 20 kph "road construction" speed limit signs), you need to know what the deal is before you drive.

ajGoes

The speed camera can't tell who's driving, only to whom the car is registered. It's that party who gets the bill. It's very odd if Hertz charged you an administration fee for a speeding ticket without also charging you the fine, because they had to pay the fine.

You're probably going to get a really big bill from your recent rental agency. Please let us know how it turns out.

BTW, the highway death rate in France is less than half what it was before their government started strictly enforcing speed limits. That translates into thousands of lives saved every year. These can't all be attributed to speed limit enforcement, as that coincided with blood-alcohol-level enforcement, but each factor no doubt had a significant effect.

YVR Cockroach

Just in case anyone missed it, there's some talk in France about reducing ex-urban non-highway/autoroute speeds from 90 km/h to 80 km/h, on the basis that it will save X more lives.

iahphx

That certainly isn't true -- I've heard of a 10% cut, which sounds way more plausible.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/48/6/4

These stats can, of course, be easily manipulated to make any point you want. Road fatalities around the world are decreasing anyway, largely due to safer cars. Like USA highway deaths keep trending down even though the trend is to higher speeds.

I do have no doubt that lower speeds would equal fewer deaths. Just like banning the car would eliminate 100% of highway fatalities. FWIW, I did not feel safer driving in France than Germany, where you can often go whatever speed you want. Higher speeds do require more driver attentiveness, however, and correct lane selection. USA drivers tend to be less aware and not to stay to the right, largely because they don't have to (a Mercedes isn't going to blow by you at 120 mph). FWIW, I always feel more awake and alert on a German autobahn than on a rural USA interstate because the road simply demands more of my attention. This perhaps explains why German road deaths aren't particularly high (despite a fairly heavy population density).

Regardless, handing out tickets for infractions that foreigners wouldn't logically think would be infractions isn't good policy. Every French rental car counter should have you sign a piece of paper warning you about the zero tolerance for speeding and the electronic enforcement. Signs should also be placed on the borders: especially those with Germany.

EDIT: This data shows that driving in France is significantly more dangerous than in Germany, even though Germany has 2x the population density. So I guess we could make French roads safer by eliminating electronic enforcement and speed limits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

iahphx

As I think about this more, given the likelihood that the 20 euro fee is for a traffic ticket, am I better off NOT inquiring from the rental car company what it's about? It's been a month and they have not contacted me -- only charged me the 20 euros. On the otherhand, would the fact that they billed me 20 euros essentially mean that they've already transmitted the driver information to the French authorities?

I mean, theoretically, the charge could be for winterization or a windshield chip. I have no idea.