Dec 20, 2015, 4:45 am
Last edit by: wilsnunn
The FlyerTalk Lending Team on Kiva:
improving lives a small loan at a time.
Kiva.org is the not-for-profit microlending organization that networks people willing to lend to small entrepreneurs in developing nations using available technology and international networking / collaboration, and how Kiva.org had become an approved FlyerTalk charity thanks to TalkBoard's approval June 29, 2008 <link> It is listed on the FlyerTalk Cares page.improving lives a small loan at a time.
"Kiva is a grassroots project started by a team with a big idea: one-to-one, real-time lending to the poor via the Internet. Currently, we take no cut of the loan you make through our site -- 100% goes to the entrepreneur. We suggest a 10% donation, in addition to your loan, to help us cover our costs. Kiva is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit and your donation is tax-deductible for US taxpayers." (Suggested donations for administrative overhead, low though that is, are not required - you may lend 100% if you so choose.)
As of 15 May 2016 it was 607 FlyerTalk lending team who have lent $2,209,175 in 37,092 loans! And now as of 30 June 2019 it is 941 members who have lent $6,415,775 in 71,722 loans!
Our motto is: "We loan because: We want to fight global poverty while earning miles."
This is tangible evidence Flyertalk Cares! There are likely other FlyerTalkers on Kiva who have not joined - if you are one of them, do so now to show your and FT's support and involvement. If you haven't lent yet, check it out - you may want to join up. For the low-income entrepreneurs on five continents who are requesting loans, microlending is significant - and it takes a lot of drops to fill the bucket. (Read on to see updates!)
Now, we can see this sophisticated network link resources from those who can lend (no interest, sorry!) with those who are needy, worthy and screened by local NGOs and have a need to start / expand their small business to enhance their and their families' survival. And, using PayPal and your FFP/FFG linked card or account, you can earn miles or points with many loans!
FlyerTalkers are lending, and fulfilling one of FT's seminal values, that of "paying it forward."
Read more about Kiva.org, who supports and enables it (Intel, Google, Paypal, Intuit and many others,) and see if you have $25.00 (or more) you can lend someone deserving in a land you have visited and enjoyed (or not.)
This is how it works:
Add your experiences here, or if you haven't joined... won't you consider joining the FlyerTalker Lending Team?
You can see who the latest FT borrowers are (some still possibly needing loans) here
For ease, you can click here: Subscribe to FlyerTalker Lending Team on Kiva.org
FlyerTalker Lending Team on Kiva.org!
Nov 8, 2017, 9:00 am
#1291
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Somewhere in Florida
Posts: 2,619
Well, I just had my first default on Kiva... In hindsight, I did think the loan value was excessive for the country, but I figured it was worth a shot.
Updated stats:
Total loans: 257
Total lent: $7,325.00
Total lost: $2.88
Amount of currency loss: $0.18
Amount of default loss: $2.70
I'm still not disappointed. I've lost 0.03%. Considering inflation in the US is running ~2.2%, the US government's fiscal policies are more dangerous to my money than Kiva loans.
Updated stats:
Total loans: 257
Total lent: $7,325.00
Total lost: $2.88
Amount of currency loss: $0.18
Amount of default loss: $2.70
I'm still not disappointed. I've lost 0.03%. Considering inflation in the US is running ~2.2%, the US government's fiscal policies are more dangerous to my money than Kiva loans.
Nov 9, 2017, 8:22 am
#1292
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 6
I'm new to MS and most interested in using Kiva for this purpose because I love Kiva and love the idea of helping others while doing this. Kiva also seems easier than running around to WMs and banks.
But I'm doing the math and I'm confused. If I donate 10k to Kiva, even if I have no defaults and eventually withdraw 10k to paypal, I pay $290 in paypal fees. I may earn 10k points for $290. But considering most points have a value around 1.5c (using tpg's valuation from 11/3/17), I've paid $290 for $150 in points.
Can someone help me understand why this would be a good idea?
But I'm doing the math and I'm confused. If I donate 10k to Kiva, even if I have no defaults and eventually withdraw 10k to paypal, I pay $290 in paypal fees. I may earn 10k points for $290. But considering most points have a value around 1.5c (using tpg's valuation from 11/3/17), I've paid $290 for $150 in points.
Can someone help me understand why this would be a good idea?
Nov 9, 2017, 6:34 pm
#1295
Senior Moderator and Moderator: American AAdvantage & TravelBuzz
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 10,416
I'm new to MS and most interested in using Kiva for this purpose because I love Kiva and love the idea of helping others while doing this. Kiva also seems easier than running around to WMs and banks.
But I'm doing the math and I'm confused. If I donate 10k to Kiva, even if I have no defaults and eventually withdraw 10k to paypal, I pay $290 in paypal fees. I may earn 10k points for $290. But considering most points have a value around 1.5c (using tpg's valuation from 11/3/17), I've paid $290 for $150 in points.
Can someone help me understand why this would be a good idea?
But I'm doing the math and I'm confused. If I donate 10k to Kiva, even if I have no defaults and eventually withdraw 10k to paypal, I pay $290 in paypal fees. I may earn 10k points for $290. But considering most points have a value around 1.5c (using tpg's valuation from 11/3/17), I've paid $290 for $150 in points.
Can someone help me understand why this would be a good idea?
So just to be clear: you can either make loans (which are then repaid back to you - minus any defaults or currency loss) or you can openly donate to their nonprofit organization.
If you simply donate money to Kiva, there's no withdrawal. It's a pure donation.
If you make loans, the lenders will repay (generally monthly or at the end of the loan). As money comes back into your account, you can then withdraw it back to your PayPal account. Note: all money added to your Kiva account must be cycled through at least one loan. That is, you can't just fund your account with a bunch of money and then immediately withdraw. (All account withdrawals go through an auditing process, so your transaction/account will get flagged.)
And as mentioned, PayPal waives all fees for Kiva transactions.
If you have other questions, feel free to ask!
Nov 10, 2017, 7:27 pm
#1296
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cambridge, MA
Programs: AAdvantage EXP
Posts: 278
I just joined the FlyerTalk team. It's a little intimidating making that first loan, but that's the goal for the weekend.
P.S. I'm in Cambridge if folks are planning another meetup here at some point...
P.S. I'm in Cambridge if folks are planning another meetup here at some point...
Nov 11, 2017, 2:17 pm
#1297
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 6
Imagnott, go for it!
Last edited by Veiled; Nov 11, 2017 at 2:18 pm Reason: corrected spelling
Nov 11, 2017, 4:47 pm
#1298
Senior Moderator and Moderator: American AAdvantage & TravelBuzz
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 10,416
I'm a fellow Cantabrigian as well. Keep an eye out for threads posted in CommunityBuzz by @mikeef. Our last one (Boston is Back! Tuesday, September 26) was in Sept, so guessing we'll have another bigger get-together in late Jan/early Feb.
Nov 11, 2017, 5:21 pm
#1299
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,644
Next one will likely be late January.
Mike
Nov 12, 2017, 5:56 pm
#1300
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cambridge, MA
Programs: AAdvantage EXP
Posts: 278
Back on topic, I made my first loan and had such a good time reading through the possibilities that I was inspired to make 3 more before the day was over.
One question - the FAQs say that if the loan is not fully funded, the money gets returned to your kiva account. How often does that actually happen? Just curious if I should monitor that or if I can just check back in a month or two when repayments should have started.
Nov 12, 2017, 11:52 pm
#1301
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,158
Well, I just had my first default on Kiva... In hindsight, I did think the loan value was excessive for the country, but I figured it was worth a shot.
Updated stats:
Total loans: 257
Total lent: $7,325.00
Total lost: $2.88
Amount of currency loss: $0.18
Amount of default loss: $2.70
I'm still not disappointed. I've lost 0.03%. Considering inflation in the US is running ~2.2%, the US government's fiscal policies are more dangerous to my money than Kiva loans.
Updated stats:
Total loans: 257
Total lent: $7,325.00
Total lost: $2.88
Amount of currency loss: $0.18
Amount of default loss: $2.70
I'm still not disappointed. I've lost 0.03%. Considering inflation in the US is running ~2.2%, the US government's fiscal policies are more dangerous to my money than Kiva loans.
Code:
Deposits Your deposits $1,000.00 Kiva Card redemptions $0.00 Kiva Card cancellations $0.00 Subtotal $1,000.00 Deductions Donations to Kiva $0.00 Currency losses ($30.13) Default losses ($330.75) Kiva Card purchases $0.00 Withdrawals $0.00 Subtotal ($360.88) Total credit in Kiva $639.12
Nov 13, 2017, 10:26 pm
#1302
Senior Moderator and Moderator: American AAdvantage & TravelBuzz
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 10,416
- Re: how often... Not a publicly available figure, but it's not uncommon. For reference, the average Kiva lender $388.60 and had $16.74 in refunds/expired loans. So roughly - every $580 in loans will result in one $25 refund.
- If you have a loan refund or expire, you'll receive an email letting you know that the credit is back in your account.
Longer answer:
Loan expirations are somewhat of a necessary evil of microfinancing, similar to the necessary evil of a default rate. To truly serve the impoverished and underbanked, Kiva must extend its reaches to higher risk partners or lenders. The rewards, in many cases, are quite high - but that comes with potentially higher default rates.
Kiva also strives to constantly have a ready supply of loans available on the site for people to loan to. In the past, Kiva has dropped to very low supply of loans, which means lenders like us with money in our account will come to site to loan, not find loans (or loans we like) - and walk away.
Loans can expire for a variety of reasons:
- loan descriptions are written in a way that don't attract lenders
- a partner suddenly "dumps" a whole lot of loans on the site, causing money to be spread too thin among the loans, meaning some may not fund fully - and thus expire.
So Kiva has been striving to work with partners to even out the supply of loans throughout the month, while trying to ensure a ready supply of loans for us to consider.
Nov 19, 2017, 2:23 pm
#1303
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
I'm curating 1000$ collected at SMD 1 & 2 back in 2009-10 and relend it without withdrawal, and the losses are staggering.
The biggest defaults were in the US. I remember making abut 10 loans in the US, all matched by capital one. All of them bent bust.
Code:
Deposits Your deposits $1,000.00 Kiva Card redemptions $0.00 Kiva Card cancellations $0.00 Subtotal $1,000.00 Deductions Donations to Kiva $0.00 Currency losses ($30.13) Default losses ($330.75) Kiva Card purchases $0.00 Withdrawals $0.00 Subtotal ($360.88) Total credit in Kiva $639.12
Nov 20, 2017, 4:03 pm
#1304
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Somewhere in Florida
Posts: 2,619
I'm curating 1000$ collected at SMD 1 & 2 back in 2009-10 and relend it without withdrawal, and the losses are staggering.
The biggest defaults were in the US. I remember making abut 10 loans in the US, all matched by capital one. All of them bent bust.
Code:
Deposits Your deposits $1,000.00 <snip> Currency losses ($30.13) Default losses ($330.75) Subtotal ($360.88) Total credit in Kiva $639.12
My only loss on Kiva thus far was part of a rather large loan to a rather poor country. I do remember looking at it and thinking it'd take these poor guys 10+ years to pay off...but gave $25 just for grins. I lost $3. Not bad overall. I don't have any ill will towards the borrower. I hope their business does indeed prosper.
For better or worse, Kiva isn't Prosper or Lending Club -- you will NEVER make money on Kiva loans. All risk is placed on us, the funding members of Kiva. All of the currency losses also are placed on the funding members. Breaking even and (possibly) helping others is the best possible outcome, but that's about it.
If you're looking towards Kiva as a method for MS, it can be... but like all methods of MS, there is risk involved. With reselling products/gift cards, there's always the chance of cards being bad / getting lost / unscrupulous buyers. With reselling products, there's always shipping damage (been there), price hikes, and unscrupulous buyers. Other methods of MS also carry risk.
Nov 24, 2017, 9:19 pm
#1305
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
A post regarding MS using other microlending programs has been moved as a new thread to the Manufactured Spend forum.
JDiver, Co-Moderator
JDiver, Co-Moderator