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Finnair Plus to go spend-based and Avios [Implemented 9 march 2024]

Old Aug 18, 2023, 4:44 am
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Last edit by: intuition
The real Q&A

Please note that this wiki may have outdated and incorrect info. It was created in a time when official and reliable information was scarce. Now there are a lot more info at https://www.finnair.com/fi-en/finnai...r-plus-changes which is where you should be looking.


What is spend actually?
Fare-component
Travel-extras*

*) Finnair.com says all add-ons are considered spend and linked listing includes hotels, cab and rentalcars. This is likely not true, but clarification is needed.


What is not spend?
"Taxes, fees and other airport- and servicefees"
On 2023-09-20 Finnair webpages changed to specify that everything under "Taxes, fees and charges" is considered not spend, expect something called "Extra fee". What this is and when it will be charged is unknown.



Award flights, regardless of how much you spend on add-ons, will give you zero spend and thus zero Avios and zero tierpoints.

Any spend onboard (eg food and drink items) are not considered spend with Finnair and earns zero.


Currency
Will spend be converted to EUR (or will there be earning tables in each currency)?
If you buy your flight tickets and travel extras in other currency than euro (for example, in USD, GBP or SEK), the total amount of your purchase (excluding taxes, other fees except for possible Extra fee, and other airport and service charges) will be first converted to euros and then multiplied with your tiers multiplier.

How will currency conversion be done (official exchange rates, IATA, Finnair internal?)
Needs clarification

When will currency conversion take place (time of purchase, time of point crediting, time of bookkeping)?
Needs clarification


Tiers

Tiers will have earning multipliers for AY spend - what are they?
Avios = spend x tier multiplier but the multiplying factor needs clarification
Basic 6x
Silver 7x
Gold 8x
Platinum 9x
Lumo 10x

Tiers will have multipliers for partner earnings tables - what are they?
They are said to be between 1,10 and 1,25 depending on tier. The exact multipliers are not disclosed, but likely they will continue as of today (silver 1,1, gold 1,15 and Platinum & lumo 1,25)
The wording on ay.com has changed. There is no longer a mention of tier multipliers for partners. Earning tables are still unknown, but wording on site now is
Tier point qualification and collecting loyalty currency on flights that are marketed or operated* by a partner airline, including Finnair codeshare flights, will continue to be based on the travel class, booking class and distance flown, but the distance flown will be changed from kilometres to miles.

Tiers will have new thresholds - what will they be?
Same TP requirement for reaching a tier and for renewing a tier.

Finnair Plus Silver 15 000
Finnair Plus Gold 45 000
Finnair Plus Platinum 80 000
Finnair Plus Platinum Lumo 300 000 (of which 250 000 collected from Finnair)

Lifetime tiers - what are their thresholds, how will previous lifetime tier points be accounted for?
Previuis lifetime total will be converted as 3:2.
New tiers are
Gold 2 000 000
Platinum 3 300 000


Tier points
TP is said to be 1:1 with Avios. Will this be true for avios/tp earned on all partner airlines?
Needs clarification

The change-over

When is the change-over done?
Needs clarification
Finnair has communicated different vague things, "early 2024" and "first half of 2024". They have said dates will be anounced "later in 2023".
Finnair have now said end of January as a change over date (also indicating change-over will take several days of processing). The final announcement is said to be 1 month in advance. At this point, we are looking at committing announcement during Christmas break.
Now the fixed date for the changeover is 9 March 2024

What will happen at change-over?
All existing AP and TP at that point will be reduced as 3:2 (-33%).
Tickets booked before change-over will earn according to old rules but with reduction 3:2 (-33%) - a table has been published with values seemingly rounded to nearest 10 avios.

Segment counter will be set to zero and disappear. Regardless of exact change-over date, this text from finnair.com indicates last evaluation will be held 31 January 2024:
In late January 2024, Finnair Plus program will become spend-based. Starting from 1 February 2024 it is not possible to reach tiers based on the number of flights only. At the same time, we will remove the number of flights from members Finnair Plus profile.Until then, we will count all the scheduled Finnair or other oneworld airlines flights that you have flown. If you have flown enough qualified flights or collected enough tier points by 31 January 2024 to renew your current tier, you will maintain your tier. Or, if you have flown enough qualified flights or collected enough tier points by 31 January 2024 to qualify for a higher tier, you will move up to a higher tier.
What will awards cost?
Needs clarification
Award charts are vaguely said to be reduced by 3:2 on average, but unclear if this Finnair charts or partner charts or a combination. Some charts are not easily reduced 3:2











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Finnair Plus to go spend-based and Avios [Implemented 9 march 2024]

Old Aug 16, 2023, 6:58 am
  #76  
 
Join Date: May 2023
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Gold, M&M and Flying Blue to try them out
Posts: 54
Some really good takes and few good laughs here, thanks everyone so far.
Personally I'll probably be all right with this change. The removal of status based on the number flights does dampen my future plans of "commuting" from somewhere like OUL or KUO instead of getting myself to HEL for the first leg.

Another point I wonder is if the tax bear/taxman will take more interest in Avios since it's being touted much more as currency and not as loyalty points.
mondostic is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 7:11 am
  #77  
 
Join Date: May 2023
Programs: AY Platinum
Posts: 25
Wonder how Aktia credit card points system shall change based on this? Any examples from other airlines/credit cards?
AY011 is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 7:15 am
  #78  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
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Originally Posted by NoWindowSeat
Mileage running will now change to Money running as in the future you can basically buy high status by simply buying few very expensive tickets.

Before its been (for some) flying most distance and/or segments as cheap as possible, this will now turn into flying as little as possible but as expensive as possible.

End of an era for sure but for the average Joe I dont think much will change, really.
US3 and AC have been doing this for years now. I'm sort of curious if the European carrier are a little late to this? With business travel not recovered in North America, I'm curious if the premium leisure market is big enough to replace it.
lsquare is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 7:26 am
  #79  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 412
Intersting..
First my go-to airline QR jumped on the BA wagon. Then QR decided to jump in bed with AY here in Scandinavia making almost all outbound QR flight AY flights. AY then decided that BC seats should not be BC seat anymore, there are a lot of opinions about that of course but I hate them.

Now AY also decided to jump on the Avios wagon...
As IAG (And Avios) biggest owner is Qatar Airways it feels that the airline industry will change next year..

it's already really difficult to find award flights, not sure what to do with all my avios, eurobonus and other points just sitting there waiting....
lsquare and JackieTrent like this.

Last edited by DirektornSE; Aug 18, 2023 at 4:57 pm
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 8:02 am
  #80  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 511
Originally Posted by mondostic
Another point I wonder is if the tax bear/taxman will take more interest in Avios since it's being touted much more as currency and not as loyalty points.
I guess if you pay for the tickets yourself then Avios can be considered as a rebate? Already now, in Finland, you should declare rewards from travel paid by your employer as income in your filing. There is the famous court case that employer cannot be held responsible for monitoring and enforcing this -- but the decision does not remove employee's personal tax liability. So I guess nothing will change in this respect. (Disclaimer: This not tax advice to anyone )
mondostic likes this.
ORD Finn is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 8:32 am
  #81  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: AY+, SK EB
Posts: 3,016
Wow, I never thought I‘d consider changing the OW FFP in the AY+ lifetime.

Not that I will do it, but to take a closer look at other OW feels surprising to me.
Jainzar is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 8:33 am
  #82  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2013
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Posts: 3,158
Originally Posted by Jainzar
Wow, I never thought Id consider changing the OW FFP in the AY+ lifetime.

Not that I will do it, but to take a closer look at other OW feels surprising to me.
For most flying routines, is there anything else to consider than BAEC?
lkrt is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 8:41 am
  #83  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 414
I'm curious about the people that claim that award availability will be worse. I credit all my flights to Iberia Plus, and book all my award travel via BAEC. I frequently book AY flights via BAEC, do AY+ members see additional availability vs other airlines? For what it's worth I'm considering to switch to AY+ booking mostly last minute one way fares that tend to be relatively expensive, but yield little avios inmy current setup.
Freddorick is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 9:03 am
  #84  
Moderator, Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2011
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Posts: 14,306
Y'all, don't worry. Cistavoda and I have come up with a solution to all issues. It is all in our heads, we can let you know in the morning

intuition is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 9:16 am
  #85  
 
Join Date: May 2015
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While I knew it was only a matter of time until €-based earning becomes a thing at AY, I sure did not predict AY will join the Avios bandwagon.

The only positive I can make of this is being able to take my AY+ balance to BAEC as that at least is sort of useful since I have plenty of transfer partners here in the US…
miamiflyer8 is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 9:23 am
  #86  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by intuition
Y'all, don't worry. Cistavoda and I have come up with a solution to all issues. It is all in our heads, we can let you know in the morning
Expecting new HS article and additionally YLE documentary in 2025 to update the solution progress and for comparison.
Last call to segment runs with connection in HEL for those who use their own money and time.
Jaenks is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 9:28 am
  #87  
a_k
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Programs: AY+ Plat
Posts: 538
My tracking period ends later this year and I'm on course to renew Plat. I guess I'll just enjoy Plat benefits until the end of 2024 and let's see how things go. I guess that my tracking period ending at the end of 2024 would still be points based, or would it somehow be converted?

Edit: I guess that's the 3:2 ratio

Last edited by a_k; Aug 16, 2023 at 10:00 am
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 9:46 am
  #88  
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: HAM
Programs: AY, Accor, Hilton - Gold
Posts: 417
I wouldn't be surprised that they already cancelled the soft landing that was kind of a hidden benefit. Straight to basic that is!
​​​​​

But at least it makes sense: prices of AY flight keep getting more expensive without better product..Now you can make these steep prices count! Ha
r2d2, Clydez and WiVM like this.
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 9:46 am
  #89  
formerly rt23456p
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,211
Originally Posted by florens
FAQ totally useless too :
Well, they still need to pretend this ENHANCEMENT is a customer-win.

Originally Posted by seldomrfly
Does anyone know how spend based earnings works on oneworld partners? AY gets how much you paid? Or do we get a partners earning table? 🤔
Edit. Obviously earning charts yet to come.
Like when American use the EQD system back in the day, EQD on partner converted from distance flown times booking class multiplier.



Coming up next in three months, store money as trip credit that only yourself could use in the future without interest and count it as EQD. Something called 消费补差 with MU.
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 9:48 am
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Yrittaja
-Transfer from avios to tier points will be possible
I'd take this with a VERY, VERY big mountain of salt. The Avios world is awash with Avios looking for spend opportunities. I don't think AY would be the ONLY airline allowing these to buy half-a-status (as is currently possible)

Originally Posted by AY011
Wonder how Aktia credit card points system shall change based on this? Any examples from other airlines/credit cards?
In Finland the experience is that SEB & Nordea cards will cease to earn anything, co-operation is over as of autumn.
kauppias likes this.
WilcoRoger is offline  

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