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Finnair Plus to go spend-based and Avios [Implemented 9 march 2024]

Old Aug 18, 2023, 4:44 am
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Last edit by: intuition
The real Q&A

Please note that this wiki may have outdated and incorrect info. It was created in a time when official and reliable information was scarce. Now there are a lot more info at https://www.finnair.com/fi-en/finnai...r-plus-changes which is where you should be looking.


What is spend actually?
Fare-component
Travel-extras*

*) Finnair.com says all add-ons are considered spend and linked listing includes hotels, cab and rentalcars. This is likely not true, but clarification is needed.


What is not spend?
"Taxes, fees and other airport- and servicefees"
On 2023-09-20 Finnair webpages changed to specify that everything under "Taxes, fees and charges" is considered not spend, expect something called "Extra fee". What this is and when it will be charged is unknown.



Award flights, regardless of how much you spend on add-ons, will give you zero spend and thus zero Avios and zero tierpoints.

Any spend onboard (eg food and drink items) are not considered spend with Finnair and earns zero.


Currency
Will spend be converted to EUR (or will there be earning tables in each currency)?
If you buy your flight tickets and travel extras in other currency than euro (for example, in USD, GBP or SEK), the total amount of your purchase (excluding taxes, other fees except for possible Extra fee, and other airport and service charges) will be first converted to euros and then multiplied with your tiers multiplier.

How will currency conversion be done (official exchange rates, IATA, Finnair internal?)
Needs clarification

When will currency conversion take place (time of purchase, time of point crediting, time of bookkeping)?
Needs clarification


Tiers

Tiers will have earning multipliers for AY spend - what are they?
Avios = spend x tier multiplier but the multiplying factor needs clarification
Basic 6x
Silver 7x
Gold 8x
Platinum 9x
Lumo 10x

Tiers will have multipliers for partner earnings tables - what are they?
They are said to be between 1,10 and 1,25 depending on tier. The exact multipliers are not disclosed, but likely they will continue as of today (silver 1,1, gold 1,15 and Platinum & lumo 1,25)
The wording on ay.com has changed. There is no longer a mention of tier multipliers for partners. Earning tables are still unknown, but wording on site now is
Tier point qualification and collecting loyalty currency on flights that are marketed or operated* by a partner airline, including Finnair codeshare flights, will continue to be based on the travel class, booking class and distance flown, but the distance flown will be changed from kilometres to miles.

Tiers will have new thresholds - what will they be?
Same TP requirement for reaching a tier and for renewing a tier.

Finnair Plus Silver 15 000
Finnair Plus Gold 45 000
Finnair Plus Platinum 80 000
Finnair Plus Platinum Lumo 300 000 (of which 250 000 collected from Finnair)

Lifetime tiers - what are their thresholds, how will previous lifetime tier points be accounted for?
Previuis lifetime total will be converted as 3:2.
New tiers are
Gold 2 000 000
Platinum 3 300 000


Tier points
TP is said to be 1:1 with Avios. Will this be true for avios/tp earned on all partner airlines?
Needs clarification

The change-over

When is the change-over done?
Needs clarification
Finnair has communicated different vague things, "early 2024" and "first half of 2024". They have said dates will be anounced "later in 2023".
Finnair have now said end of January as a change over date (also indicating change-over will take several days of processing). The final announcement is said to be 1 month in advance. At this point, we are looking at committing announcement during Christmas break.
Now the fixed date for the changeover is 9 March 2024

What will happen at change-over?
All existing AP and TP at that point will be reduced as 3:2 (-33%).
Tickets booked before change-over will earn according to old rules but with reduction 3:2 (-33%) - a table has been published with values seemingly rounded to nearest 10 avios.

Segment counter will be set to zero and disappear. Regardless of exact change-over date, this text from finnair.com indicates last evaluation will be held 31 January 2024:
In late January 2024, Finnair Plus program will become spend-based. Starting from 1 February 2024 it is not possible to reach tiers based on the number of flights only. At the same time, we will remove the number of flights from members Finnair Plus profile.Until then, we will count all the scheduled Finnair or other oneworld airlines flights that you have flown. If you have flown enough qualified flights or collected enough tier points by 31 January 2024 to renew your current tier, you will maintain your tier. Or, if you have flown enough qualified flights or collected enough tier points by 31 January 2024 to qualify for a higher tier, you will move up to a higher tier.
What will awards cost?
Needs clarification
Award charts are vaguely said to be reduced by 3:2 on average, but unclear if this Finnair charts or partner charts or a combination. Some charts are not easily reduced 3:2











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Finnair Plus to go spend-based and Avios [Implemented 9 march 2024]

Old Feb 13, 2024, 1:18 am
  #751  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Programs: AY Platinum
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by ffay005
What did this someone mean by a blacklist? All airlines keep a sort of no-fly list of pax that are banned from that airline, even for life, as a consequence of their past behaviour. Usually it needs to be something severe.
Yes indeed, I am aware of that. So it is non-sense in other words. He mentioned it based on the events I have already had with AY over the years. Nothing severe at all, just AY at it's best. Daily mishaps. I though, this is the first thing I hear about it. But I am never surprised that they would reinvent the wheel and be over excited to ban people based on issues they would have caused themselves on daily basis.
WiVM is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2024, 1:20 am
  #752  
Ambassador: Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,277
Originally Posted by ffay005
Tickets bought up to 08MAR will accrue according to current rules regardless of when the flights take place.
For AY tickets on AY metal, yes. Regarding codeshares and other OW tickets, no clear info / fare class tables out as of yet.
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NoWindowSeat is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2024, 1:39 am
  #753  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Programs: AY Platinum
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by NoWindowSeat
For AY tickets on AY metal, yes. Regarding codeshares and other OW tickets, no clear info / fare class tables out as of yet.
This can work in both directions for them. I expect many to delay their purchases until 9 March. Like me. This can result in higher fees as the departure dates are closer and the cheaper classes will be booked. On the other hand you have people, also like me, that now book elsewhere. I use SAS with AirBaltic frequently with the status match from AY Platinum.

Not sure if they understand the impact of this delay in activating Avios themselves. I think this will result in less revenue for AY. They seems to count on delayed revenue, which can also be true. On the other hand you will have people that have seen the competition and will keep on using it. I know people that did already switch. Some in combination with AMEX.

Last edited by WiVM; Feb 13, 2024 at 1:46 am
WiVM is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2024, 12:26 pm
  #754  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 9
I would like to check that 120k is enough for renewing Platinum status? Is that correct? Or need 150k?
Alanmies39 is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2024, 12:26 pm
  #755  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: AY+, SK EB
Posts: 3,014
Originally Posted by NoWindowSeat
For AY tickets on AY metal, yes. Regarding codeshares and other OW tickets, no clear info / fare class tables out as of yet.
For OW tickets no prior info is needed since the day of purchase doesn‘t matter.

E.g. For AA it says currently

Valid on flights from 1 May 2022 onwards

In contrast to AY where it says

Bookings made on or after 15 June 2021

​​​​​​​https://www.finnair.com/en/finnair-p...s-from-flights
Jainzar is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2024, 12:28 pm
  #756  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: AY+, SK EB
Posts: 3,014
Originally Posted by Alanmies39
I would like to check that 120k is enough for renewing Platinum status? Is that correct? Or need 150k?
120k current tier points (i.e. 80k new tier points) is the requirement.
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Old Feb 13, 2024, 11:12 pm
  #757  
Ambassador: Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,277
Originally Posted by Jainzar
For OW tickets no prior info is needed since the day of purchase doesnt matter.

E.g. For AA it says currently


In contrast to AY where it says


https://www.finnair.com/en/finnair-p...s-from-flights
Im not sure I follow your thinking here. In the past when AY has made any changes to earnings they have published the tables in advance. Now, if you book say AA flight in class you dont know what youll earn if you fly on March 10th to me thats not OK/normal.
NoWindowSeat is offline  
Old Feb 14, 2024, 12:28 am
  #758  
a_k
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Programs: AY+ Plat
Posts: 536
I have read a few posts suggesting it is better to book after the changes come into effect. Am I missing something? For example:

ARN-HEL-JFK round trip in Y Flex as Plat = 33750 points (22500 points after 3 to 2 conversion)
Cost of ticket = 710.24€ - 383.24€ in taxes, fees, charges = 327€
327€ x 9 Plat multiplier = 2943 points

So, basically 7.5x less points by waiting until March 10th.

I did the same calculation for J Flex as Plat:
56250 points = 37500 after conversion
Cost of ticket = 3410.24€ - 623.24€ in taxes, fees, charges = 2787€
2787€ x 9 Plat multiplier = 25083 points

This time, only 1.5x points difference, but still less.

Maybe I am missing something obvious, such as booking more expensive tickets, but otherwise it seems the price per point is much, much better if I book in the next few weeks.
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a_k is offline  
Old Feb 14, 2024, 1:16 am
  #759  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sweden
Programs: AY+ Platinum
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by a_k
I have read a few posts suggesting it is better to book after the changes come into effect. Am I missing something? For example:

ARN-HEL-JFK round trip in Y Flex as Plat = 33750 points (22500 points after 3 to 2 conversion)
Cost of ticket = 710.24 - 383.24 in taxes, fees, charges = 327
327 x 9 Plat multiplier = 2943 points

So, basically 7.5x less points by waiting until March 10th.

I did the same calculation for J Flex as Plat:
56250 points = 37500 after conversion
Cost of ticket = 3410.24 - 623.24 in taxes, fees, charges = 2787
2787 x 9 Plat multiplier = 25083 points

This time, only 1.5x points difference, but still less.

Maybe I am missing something obvious, such as booking more expensive tickets, but otherwise it seems the price per point is much, much better if I book in the next few weeks.
Yes, you are correct that booking before March 9th will give you much more points than after March 9th.
Flying Whale is offline  
Old Feb 14, 2024, 1:18 am
  #760  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,102
Originally Posted by a_k
Cost of ticket = 710.24 - 383.24 in taxes, fees, charges = 327
327 x 9 Plat multiplier = 2943 points


Cost of ticket = 3410.24 - 623.24 in taxes, fees, charges = 2787
2787 x 9 Plat multiplier = 25083 points
Except taxes and fees include Finnair Extra Fee (Like Y 260 C 500) and this is supposed to accumulate Adios also.





In addition to the base fare of the flight ticket, you will collect Avios and tier points from the possible surcharge set by the airline. If there is such a surcharge included in the flight ticket, you can find it in the price breakdown of the booking path under the Taxes, fees and charges as Extra fee. Taxes, other fees and airport and service charges are deducted from the price. The remaining amount is multiplied by each tiers own multiplier to get the number of tier points and Avios that you will collect.
NoWindowSeat, intuition and a_k like this.
OH-LGG is online now  
Old Feb 14, 2024, 1:32 am
  #761  
Moderator, Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: EB Diamond, M&M SEN, QR Gold, AY+ Gold, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,305
"Extra fee" is basically YQ *) . For some reason (I assume tax regulations in different jurisdictions) they are keeping this fake tax on some routes/markets while they have abandoned it on others. This makes it even more difficult to know what a ticket will earn.
In the example adding this fee to the earnings doesn't change the outcome. Less earnings in the future.

*) And in the case of AY YQ is called YR: Carrier-imposed surcharge (YR)
intuition is offline  
Old Feb 14, 2024, 1:37 am
  #762  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,102
Originally Posted by intuition

*) And in the case of AY YQ is called YR: Carrier-imposed surcharge (YR)
Like in my JFK ticket:
Fare EUR 301.00

EUR 160.00 YR EUR 9.87 DE EUR 56.91 OY
EUR 0.50 RA EUR 8.52 RA EUR 11.08 WL
EUR 1.80 XU EUR 5.15 AY EUR 20.41 US
EUR 20.41 US EUR 3.52 XA EUR 6.44 XY
EUR 6.41 YC EUR 4.14 XF
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Old Feb 14, 2024, 2:02 am
  #763  
a_k
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Programs: AY+ Plat
Posts: 536
Originally Posted by OH-LGG
Except taxes and fees include Finnair Extra Fee (Like Y 260 C 500) and this is supposed to accumulate Adios also.
Thanks. Too many "extras" and missed that one. Still, for Y bookings, it seems like booking in the next few weeks is the way to go for sure.
a_k is offline  
Old Feb 14, 2024, 2:57 am
  #764  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Helsinki
Programs: AY Platinum, IHG Gold, Diners
Posts: 1,280
I likely agree for long-haul, but e.g. intra-Nordic I am not so sure. A round-trip intra-Nordic gives with Classic ticket and Plat multiplier 2500 points. That will in the future be 1666 new points. That corresponds to a fare of 185 for a plat. Looking at some of my upcoming intra-Nordic trips, the fares are higher than that.

You can probably find examples both ways. For me, with my flying pattern, the change is beneficial.
niksal is offline  
Old Feb 14, 2024, 3:06 am
  #765  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,102
Originally Posted by niksal
That corresponds to a fare of 185 for a plat.
I checked taxes and fees for Y ticket HEL-ARN-HEL. It's 39,70

So total cost of ticket around 225 (return) to get those points (1666)
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