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Finnair Plus to go spend-based and Avios [Implemented 9 march 2024]

Old Aug 18, 2023, 4:44 am
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The real Q&A

Please note that this wiki may have outdated and incorrect info. It was created in a time when official and reliable information was scarce. Now there are a lot more info at https://www.finnair.com/fi-en/finnai...r-plus-changes which is where you should be looking.


What is spend actually?
Fare-component
Travel-extras*

*) Finnair.com says all add-ons are considered spend and linked listing includes hotels, cab and rentalcars. This is likely not true, but clarification is needed.


What is not spend?
"Taxes, fees and other airport- and servicefees"
On 2023-09-20 Finnair webpages changed to specify that everything under "Taxes, fees and charges" is considered not spend, expect something called "Extra fee". What this is and when it will be charged is unknown.



Award flights, regardless of how much you spend on add-ons, will give you zero spend and thus zero Avios and zero tierpoints.

Any spend onboard (eg food and drink items) are not considered spend with Finnair and earns zero.


Currency
Will spend be converted to EUR (or will there be earning tables in each currency)?
If you buy your flight tickets and travel extras in other currency than euro (for example, in USD, GBP or SEK), the total amount of your purchase (excluding taxes, other fees except for possible Extra fee, and other airport and service charges) will be first converted to euros and then multiplied with your tiers multiplier.

How will currency conversion be done (official exchange rates, IATA, Finnair internal?)
Needs clarification

When will currency conversion take place (time of purchase, time of point crediting, time of bookkeping)?
Needs clarification


Tiers

Tiers will have earning multipliers for AY spend - what are they?
Avios = spend x tier multiplier but the multiplying factor needs clarification
Basic 6x
Silver 7x
Gold 8x
Platinum 9x
Lumo 10x

Tiers will have multipliers for partner earnings tables - what are they?
They are said to be between 1,10 and 1,25 depending on tier. The exact multipliers are not disclosed, but likely they will continue as of today (silver 1,1, gold 1,15 and Platinum & lumo 1,25)
The wording on ay.com has changed. There is no longer a mention of tier multipliers for partners. Earning tables are still unknown, but wording on site now is
Tier point qualification and collecting loyalty currency on flights that are marketed or operated* by a partner airline, including Finnair codeshare flights, will continue to be based on the travel class, booking class and distance flown, but the distance flown will be changed from kilometres to miles.

Tiers will have new thresholds - what will they be?
Same TP requirement for reaching a tier and for renewing a tier.

Finnair Plus Silver 15 000
Finnair Plus Gold 45 000
Finnair Plus Platinum 80 000
Finnair Plus Platinum Lumo 300 000 (of which 250 000 collected from Finnair)

Lifetime tiers - what are their thresholds, how will previous lifetime tier points be accounted for?
Previuis lifetime total will be converted as 3:2.
New tiers are
Gold 2 000 000
Platinum 3 300 000


Tier points
TP is said to be 1:1 with Avios. Will this be true for avios/tp earned on all partner airlines?
Needs clarification

The change-over

When is the change-over done?
Needs clarification
Finnair has communicated different vague things, "early 2024" and "first half of 2024". They have said dates will be anounced "later in 2023".
Finnair have now said end of January as a change over date (also indicating change-over will take several days of processing). The final announcement is said to be 1 month in advance. At this point, we are looking at committing announcement during Christmas break.
Now the fixed date for the changeover is 9 March 2024

What will happen at change-over?
All existing AP and TP at that point will be reduced as 3:2 (-33%).
Tickets booked before change-over will earn according to old rules but with reduction 3:2 (-33%) - a table has been published with values seemingly rounded to nearest 10 avios.

Segment counter will be set to zero and disappear. Regardless of exact change-over date, this text from finnair.com indicates last evaluation will be held 31 January 2024:
In late January 2024, Finnair Plus program will become spend-based. Starting from 1 February 2024 it is not possible to reach tiers based on the number of flights only. At the same time, we will remove the number of flights from members Finnair Plus profile.Until then, we will count all the scheduled Finnair or other oneworld airlines flights that you have flown. If you have flown enough qualified flights or collected enough tier points by 31 January 2024 to renew your current tier, you will maintain your tier. Or, if you have flown enough qualified flights or collected enough tier points by 31 January 2024 to qualify for a higher tier, you will move up to a higher tier.
What will awards cost?
Needs clarification
Award charts are vaguely said to be reduced by 3:2 on average, but unclear if this Finnair charts or partner charts or a combination. Some charts are not easily reduced 3:2











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Finnair Plus to go spend-based and Avios [Implemented 9 march 2024]

Old Aug 16, 2023, 4:31 am
  #61  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+Plat, ALL Plat
Posts: 3,630
Originally Posted by Einar01
Just wondering would it make sense to convert my remaining points to tier points so I could renew my status already this year before the changes kick in. What do you guys think? My tracking period ends in May and I have flights booked for the early next year. I have counted that I would earn enough from those flights to renew my status, but this might not be the case anymore... Converting points now would secure my status for one more year.
I'm wondering likewise, but the problem is that status is renewed on the day that the new accrual period starts, not on the day that the qualifications criteria are met.

So I don't think that would even work.
Courmisch is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 4:37 am
  #62  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seat 1L these days :)
Programs: AF Platinum/AY LUMO/SK EBG/baEC S/HYATT Globalist/MR LTP/A3 *G/HH Dia/IHG plat
Posts: 8,265
Originally Posted by nordic
I might be the only one who is almost happy. Well, I dont like the changes that BA did. But I earn most of miles on BA. Now I will have a way to transfer AY Visa points to BA.
Except i am sure it will be a one to three ratio since thats propably why aktia was at a 3 to earn vs other cards so we will see... edit evidently a 3:2 ratio it is

Last edited by kauppias; Aug 16, 2023 at 5:12 am
kauppias is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 4:52 am
  #63  
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 13
What a .... show.

Although next year it might not be possible to convert those points anymore if I fall short for the new qualification criteria...
Einar01 is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 4:55 am
  #64  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,186
Originally Posted by JoRz
Interesting changes. Not sure if the customers will benefit (likely not).

So should I try to renew my Gold this fall with seqments while it is still possible?
If you're close, why not?
JoRz likes this.
WilcoRoger is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 5:01 am
  #65  
Ambassador: Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,277
Originally Posted by CX HK
Will lifetime programs still be achievable? And will we be able to convert Avios into tier points?
I would imagine they move all to Avios at 3:2, including the LT points and LT Status targets?
SPBanker likes this.
NoWindowSeat is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 5:03 am
  #66  
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by Courmisch
I'm wondering likewise, but the problem is that status is renewed on the day that the new accrual period starts, not on the day that the qualifications criteria are met.

So I don't think that would even work.
Of course it will work. If you renew your status during the current qualification year, you have renewed it for the next qualification year, period.

One must be careful, though, to do it while we're under the old rules and not get caught out. As they talk about "early 2024" I am thinking an Xmas conversion. I'll be short of ca 50k TP, so it's a borderline case, though. I should exchange some 150k points that would be 100k Avios. Is another year of Plat worth that? This is the question.

PS - if there's another "buy AY points" promo before the Avios-world's arrival, it should be looked at very closely, as the 3:2 exchange ratio is VERY good.

Originally Posted by CX HK
And will we be able to convert Avios into tier points?
I am not aware of any Avios programs allowing that
WilcoRoger is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 5:20 am
  #67  
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: WAS
Programs: Free Agent
Posts: 1,757
Big win for IAG with a unified European currency (and Qatar, as the largest shareholder).
lsquare likes this.
Beltway2A is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 5:20 am
  #68  
 
Join Date: Aug 2023
Posts: 1
Send feedback

Make sure everybody to send Finnair feedback and tell them how outraged you are. They already walken back on some Of the changes regarding hand luggage and business class based on customer feedback. Make sure they know exactly how you feel about this.

If you do not have time to Call or chat them, use the feedback form on the website.

Then select the second option: Let us know about booking and travel experience. Then in the following screens select Finnair plus program.

you can skip If it asks for travel details - they are not mandatory.
NemoHoo is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 5:21 am
  #69  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 271
Feeling doubly annoyed by this "new era" of AY+. First the surprise announcement which raises more questions and uncertainty. The footnote "more info coming at the end of the year" feels like an attempt to win time to keep customer ombudsman (or similar customer protection agencies) from waiving their warning fingers. And the stock doesn't seem to want to move one way or the other with this announcement due to the thin info.

To add to my personal insults, I also noticed that I haven't gotten any direct marketing emails from Ole nor AY since 2020 whilst I haven't made any changes to marketing permissions.So this is annoying.

Luckily for me, you wonderful FT'ers keep me on top of the latest news!
florens and delpiero223 like this.
manywhere is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 5:28 am
  #70  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Programs: Finnair
Posts: 4
Another one wondering here. My tier renews soon, and I have maybe 280k AY points currently so I'm one wondering what will happen with them. Should I spend them as soon as possible, or wait? Or do a tactical tier-point conversion before the transition to avios? The 3:2 announcement feels silly when we know nothing about what it means in practice. Annoying.
No Username is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 5:30 am
  #71  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,685
Bad news, but to be expected. It makes sense for FFPs to favor actually valuable customers instead of mileage runners, so this is why we see AF-KL, LH and BA all go revenue-based for awards (not tiers). Some of the people who have quit many times already seem to be quitting again, finally there seems to be a real reason. For many, loyalty is going to end up being costly.

Will be interesting to see what the tiers are. 150k AY+ for Plat => 100k Avios => 12.5k spend if it's 8 Avios per Euro for plats/lumos (BA is 9 Avios per GBP).

Some key things here will how the new upgrade system works (simplifying it was predicted). If it's still the equivalent of 3 + 1 (gift gold) 2-class long-hauls for Plat, then that will be a lot more generous than BA and an incentive to stick around. QR has scrapped QCredits completely and now instead you have "Keys" which unlock Avios upgrades.

I also agree with those saying that 3:2 seems like a pretty good arbitrage opportunity given redemption rates on BA/QR, though not very nice if your main use of points before has been upgrades..

Will be interesting to see the details. 12.5k would be a bit less than I spent last 12m I guess (though I am trying to reduce travel), so I guess I'd get the vouchers, but probably fewer points-based upgrades.
SPBanker and Rakennusteline like this.
mpkz is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 6:09 am
  #72  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+Plat, ALL Plat
Posts: 3,630
Originally Posted by mpkz
Some key things here will how the new upgrade system works (simplifying it was predicted).
The simplified upgrade system is already explained on the web page.
Courmisch is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 6:21 am
  #73  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: HEL
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by WilcoRoger
E.g. a current 40k AY shorthaul will be 27k Avios. Over at BA you pay 15k Avios for the same.
Surely they will need to adjust the spending side too. Previous points were km based in earnings and now they are switching to miles based earnings (directly in partner earnings, indirectly with avios that have their roots in a miles based program). Or target the program to complete idiots, given the easy transfer of avios to other programs.
ikeatroll is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 6:34 am
  #74  
Ambassador: Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,277
Mileage running will now change to Money running as in the future you can basically buy high status by simply buying few very expensive tickets.

Before its been (for some) flying most distance and/or segments as cheap as possible, this will now turn into flying as little as possible but as expensive as possible.

End of an era for sure but for the average Joe I dont think much will change, really.
lsquare, SPBanker, mpkz and 3 others like this.
NoWindowSeat is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 6:57 am
  #75  
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 66
Finnairs customer agents "confirmed" on FB the following:

-One will earn points with old system if tickets are purchased before the changes in 2024.
-Lifetime tiers will exist
-Partner benefits will continue as is with same 3:2 points transfer
-Transfer from avios to tier points will be possible
Yrittaja is offline  

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