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Finnair Plus to go spend-based and Avios [Implemented 9 march 2024]

Old Aug 18, 2023, 4:44 am
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The real Q&A

Please note that this wiki may have outdated and incorrect info. It was created in a time when official and reliable information was scarce. Now there are a lot more info at https://www.finnair.com/fi-en/finnai...r-plus-changes which is where you should be looking.


What is spend actually?
Fare-component
Travel-extras*

*) Finnair.com says all add-ons are considered spend and linked listing includes hotels, cab and rentalcars. This is likely not true, but clarification is needed.


What is not spend?
"Taxes, fees and other airport- and servicefees"
On 2023-09-20 Finnair webpages changed to specify that everything under "Taxes, fees and charges" is considered not spend, expect something called "Extra fee". What this is and when it will be charged is unknown.



Award flights, regardless of how much you spend on add-ons, will give you zero spend and thus zero Avios and zero tierpoints.

Any spend onboard (eg food and drink items) are not considered spend with Finnair and earns zero.


Currency
Will spend be converted to EUR (or will there be earning tables in each currency)?
If you buy your flight tickets and travel extras in other currency than euro (for example, in USD, GBP or SEK), the total amount of your purchase (excluding taxes, other fees except for possible Extra fee, and other airport and service charges) will be first converted to euros and then multiplied with your tier’s multiplier.

How will currency conversion be done (official exchange rates, IATA, Finnair internal?)
Needs clarification

When will currency conversion take place (time of purchase, time of point crediting, time of bookkeping)?
Needs clarification


Tiers

Tiers will have earning multipliers for AY spend - what are they?
Avios = spend x tier multiplier but the multiplying factor needs clarification
Basic 6x
Silver 7x
Gold 8x
Platinum 9x
Lumo 10x

Tiers will have multipliers for partner earnings tables - what are they?
They are said to be between 1,10 and 1,25 depending on tier. The exact multipliers are not disclosed, but likely they will continue as of today (silver 1,1, gold 1,15 and Platinum & lumo 1,25)
The wording on ay.com has changed. There is no longer a mention of tier multipliers for partners. Earning tables are still unknown, but wording on site now is
Tier point qualification and collecting loyalty currency on flights that are marketed or operated* by a partner airline, including Finnair codeshare flights, will continue to be based on the travel class, booking class and distance flown, but the distance flown will be changed from kilometres to miles.

Tiers will have new thresholds - what will they be?
Same TP requirement for reaching a tier and for renewing a tier.

Finnair Plus Silver 15 000
Finnair Plus Gold 45 000
Finnair Plus Platinum 80 000
Finnair Plus Platinum Lumo 300 000 (of which 250 000 collected from Finnair)

Lifetime tiers - what are their thresholds, how will previous lifetime tier points be accounted for?
Previuis lifetime total will be converted as 3:2.
New tiers are
Gold 2 000 000
Platinum 3 300 000


Tier points
TP is said to be 1:1 with Avios. Will this be true for avios/tp earned on all partner airlines?
Needs clarification

The change-over

When is the change-over done?
Needs clarification
Finnair has communicated different vague things, "early 2024" and "first half of 2024". They have said dates will be anounced "later in 2023".
Finnair have now said end of January as a change over date (also indicating change-over will take several days of processing). The final announcement is said to be 1 month in advance. At this point, we are looking at committing announcement during Christmas break.
Now the fixed date for the changeover is 9 March 2024

What will happen at change-over?
All existing AP and TP at that point will be reduced as 3:2 (-33%).
Tickets booked before change-over will earn according to old rules but with reduction 3:2 (-33%) - a table has been published with values seemingly rounded to nearest 10 avios.

Segment counter will be set to zero and disappear. Regardless of exact change-over date, this text from finnair.com indicates last evaluation will be held 31 January 2024:
In late January 2024, Finnair Plus program will become spend-based. Starting from 1 February 2024 it is not possible to reach tiers based on the number of flights only. At the same time, we will remove the number of flights from members’ Finnair Plus profile.Until then, we will count all the scheduled Finnair or other oneworld airlines’ flights that you have flown. If you have flown enough qualified flights or collected enough tier points by 31 January 2024 to renew your current tier, you will maintain your tier. Or, if you have flown enough qualified flights or collected enough tier points by 31 January 2024 to qualify for a higher tier, you will move up to a higher tier.
What will awards cost?
Needs clarification
Award charts are vaguely said to be reduced by 3:2 on average, but unclear if this Finnair charts or partner charts or a combination. Some charts are not easily reduced 3:2











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Finnair Plus to go spend-based and Avios [Implemented 9 march 2024]

Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:18 am
  #46  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Programs: BAEC Silver, HHonors Gold, IHG Ambassador
Posts: 217
Originally Posted by nordic
haven’t the Avios members already the possibility to book AY reward seats
They do. I just did so for HEL-CHQ-HEL. Was also available for Finnair points but I booked it with Avios instead.
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:24 am
  #47  
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: australia
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Next announcement, 3 months hence -Finnair is going to concentrate on selling vacuum cleaners door-to-door.
You heard it here first.
r2d2, ffay005, Ed Size and 7 others like this.
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:26 am
  #48  
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Originally Posted by 3544quebec
next announcement, 3 months hence -finnair is going to concentrate on selling vacuum cleaners door-to-door.
You heard it here first.
😆😂🤣👀
Finni likes this.
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:27 am
  #49  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Programs: TK *G, BA Gold
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This sounds good news for BAEC members, because you could transfer your Avios to Finnair plus and so redeem from there - opening up routes like HEL-MAN and HEL-EDI for redemptions that AY does not normally release to partner programs. Also I think the fees when redeeming on Finnair plus for AY flights are lower than redeeming BA Avios on AY flights, so also good for BAEC members redeeming on AY flights.
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:29 am
  #50  
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Originally Posted by riku2
This sounds good news for BAEC members, because you could transfer your Avios to Finnair plus and so redeem from there - opening up routes like HEL-MAN and HEL-EDI for redemptions that AY does not normally release to partner programs. Also I think the fees when redeeming on Finnair plus for AY flights are lower than redeeming BA Avios on AY flights, so also good for BAEC members redeeming on AY flights.
I suspect there will be closer AY/BA coordination to ensure their airlines always win and consumers lose. At the end of the day, it's business.
Fyfan likes this.
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:31 am
  #51  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,387
Will lifetime programs still be achievable? And will we be able to convert Avios into tier points?
atreides, petteriusa and manywhere like this.
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:42 am
  #52  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,620
Originally Posted by riku2
This sounds good news for BAEC members, because you could transfer your Avios to Finnair plus and so redeem from there - opening up routes like HEL-MAN and HEL-EDI for redemptions that AY does not normally release to partner programs. Also I think the fees when redeeming on Finnair plus for AY flights are lower than redeeming BA Avios on AY flights, so also good for BAEC members redeeming on AY flights.
An additional benefit is that you can book on-line award flights to TLL, RIX, VNO etc operated by norra and possibly to Widerøe operted destinations after transferring BA Avios to AY. Currently these destinations are bookable only through BAEC call centres. Well, AY prices are usually higher and such a sort flight is often better to book with money.

It will also be possible for AY members to book Aer Lingus and Vueling flights for what that is worth if you transfer Avios.

I’m not saying I like the changes but it is going to happen and I like to find something positive in it.
renila likes this.

Last edited by nordic; Aug 16, 2023 at 3:56 am
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:44 am
  #53  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
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Originally Posted by Ed Size
What I don t understand is that they are switching to Avios, and wanna become spend based, while BA tiers are not spend based as far as I remember. So I ll take my Avios to BA again, and got the Emerald on tier points. So where is the profit on AYs side? For me it makes no difference if I enter the Plat Wing on AY or BA status - but I guess it makes a difference for AY.
BA already announced they are going the same way from Oct 18th this year for avios collection. Tier points remain the same but I suspect it won’t be long.
citiflyerUK is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:45 am
  #54  
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 89
Interesting changes. Not sure if the customers will benefit (likely not).

So should I try to renew my Gold this fall with seqments while it is still possible? If I understood correctly, I would remain Gold after the changes and I would keep the vouchers - and there would even be more benefits such as WhatsApp for Gold.
Helsinki Flyer and mondostic like this.
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:46 am
  #55  
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Originally Posted by citiflyerUK
BA already announced they are going the same way from Oct 18th this year for avios collection. Tier points remain the same but I suspect it won’t be long.
Only award points (avios) will be spend-based. No change to tier points for BAEC (yet).
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:51 am
  #56  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
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Originally Posted by manywhere
Reading between the lines: so Topi is planning to sell AY to IAG?
And the biggest shareholder of IAG is QR who also happens to use Avios.
manywhere and Fyfan like this.
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 3:58 am
  #57  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: HEL
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Originally Posted by florens
10k€ for Plat? Hell no. AY Basic forever.
Lumo is what then? 30k€?
That sounds about right actually. It wouldn't make much sense if a single long-haul business class trip from HEL brought Platinum, so it's got to be at the very least 5k€, and I'be guessing about 10k€ too.

And that's assuming that there are no ticket type multipliers anymore, otherwise it will have to skew even further away from economy class prices.

We will see, but while I won't be as badly affected as the segment runners and the true mileage runners, this is probably the end for me still. On the bright side, my expectations are so bad that I probably won't be disappointed when the follow-up announcements are made
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 4:02 am
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Courmisch
That sounds about right actually. It wouldn't make much sense if a single long-haul business class trip from HEL brought Platinum, so it's got to be at the very least 5k€, and I'be guessing about 10k€ too.

And that's assuming that there are no ticket type multipliers anymore, otherwise it will have to skew even further away from economy class prices.

We will see, but while I won't be as badly affected as the segment runners and the true mileage runners, this is probably the end for me still. On the bright side, my expectations are so bad that I probably won't be disappointed when the follow-up announcements are made
Don't forget you only earn for the fare part spend of the ticket. No tier point earnings for taxes, service charges and fees. I had a quick look at my recent tickets and the fare part normally is between 50-80% of the price paid.
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 4:21 am
  #59  
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Originally Posted by nordic
I might be the only one who is almost happy. Well, I don’t like the changes that BA did. But I earn most of miles on BA. Now I will have a way to transfer AY Visa points to BA.
I didn't think of this, but this is major + 2 Avios/€ is a brilliant earning.
until it's enhanced away.

My other takes on this

Transition period:
- the initial 3:2 exchange ration is good. My personal valuation is about 3:1 to 4:1
- probably I will exchange enough point to TP to hit Plat sometime before the new rules kick in

Going forward:
- for anyone flying AY and wanting to reach/retain OW tier - credit everything to BA or maybe QR (ironically I became a BAEC refugee at AY some years ago, when BA was doing its enhancing du jour). We haven't seen the new requirements yet, but I have no high expectations (or actually my expectations are high-€)
- for anyone making redemptions, BA (or IB or QR?) is the way to go. E.g. a current 40k AY shorthaul will be 27k Avios. Over at BA you pay 15k Avios for the same. For long haul EI or IB looks the way to go. Same for OW redemptions.
- upgrading on all IAG airlines will be much easier/cheaper vs. current situation.
- remember - BA has "Household account" so you can pool your resources
- new, non-OW earning opportunities in the IAG/avios world: Aer Lingus, Air Italy, Air Nostrum, Avianca, Bangkok Airways, Binter Canarias, JetBlue, Latam, MEA, Oman Air, RwandAir, United (!!), Vueling, QF codeshares on Emirates

If an AY+ member has no BA and IB and VY and QR and EI/avios.com accounts yet, open each one without delay. (e.g. IB needs to be open 90 days before Avios transfers are possible) This supposes that Avios transfers among the several accounts will be as seamless as they are today

Lots of arbitrage opportunities will open up, at least we can try to game the system (but remember - the house always wins)

All the other stuff in the mail is simply marketing fluff.

PS - on EI the earning rate is 3Avios/€ on VY it's 2-4Avios/€, so this might give a glimpse to things to come

Last edited by WilcoRoger; Aug 16, 2023 at 4:53 am
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Old Aug 16, 2023, 4:25 am
  #60  
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 13
Just wondering would it make sense to convert my remaining points to tier points so I could renew my status already this year before the changes kick in. What do you guys think? My tracking period ends in May and I have flights booked for the early next year. I have counted that I would earn enough from those flights to renew my status, but this might not be the case anymore... Converting points now would secure my status for one more year.
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