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Impact of Russian airspace closure on Finnair

Impact of Russian airspace closure on Finnair

Old Mar 7, 22, 7:27 pm
  #136  
 
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Originally Posted by BasilBush View Post
Looking at the new schedules for the period up to 27 Mar the AY132 now departs SIN at 22.45. Previously I think it used to be 23.45. So they seem to have brought forward the departure time by an hour, with the arrival time in HEL remaining the same at 06.00, presumably so as to protect the connections.

Hopefully the schedules post 28 Mar will be similarly considerate! We shall see.
I booked going the other way in June, with connections at both ends, im hoping they bring forward the HEL departure time there too to maintain arrival time in SIN
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Old Mar 7, 22, 7:59 pm
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Originally Posted by jrfsp320 View Post
I booked going the other way in June, with connections at both ends, im hoping they bring forward the HEL departure time there too to maintain arrival time in SIN
We'll have to see. Surely it's in their interests to adjust the flight schedules to realistic timings. Otherwise it will keep generating misconnections. I don't know how this all interacts with EC261 compensation. But surely the longer this situation goes on the less feasible it would be to argue extraordinary circumstances caused the misconnections.
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Old Mar 7, 22, 10:39 pm
  #138  
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Originally Posted by Im a new user View Post
Do refunds work? If not, how does AY refund tickets when passengers ask for a refund of their cancelled flights? SWIFT transactions between AY's bank account in Finland and a bank account in Russia could also be blocked. Do they send a courier with cash on the Allegro train?


If they did, it must be in cash rubles - taking currency (banknotes) to Russia is now forbidden by the EU (with some exceptions, as usual - tourists still can take cash) OTOH I am not sure how Russian customs looks at importing cash rubles - in the olden days that was not allowed, but it might be last century info.
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Old Mar 8, 22, 5:00 am
  #139  
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For AY's tickets for travel from Russia, who knows whether transaction reversals for AY ticket purchases that have been voided are possibly in different buckets than ticket refunds for cancelled tickets that are several months (or even 12+ months) old.

Originally Posted by Ed Size View Post
So why we can t make Russian weapons don t work abroad?
You mean like geo-fence weapons systems?

There are some countries that have some history of putting in electronic back-doors that could be used to at least temporarily enable shutting off some weapons systems, but it's just not "good" for the weapons sales business when a company or country do that if the suppliers are known to allow that to happen or otherwise put in such a potential exploit. And often there could be a work-around or other ways to limit the effectiveness of a de-facto kill-switch. The way the selling country and its subject companies can geographically restrict weapons is by having the exporting country and the importing country to have state-level legally-binding agreements limiting how the purchased military goods/services can be used by the importing/acquiring party to a weapons sales transaction.
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Old Mar 8, 22, 5:51 am
  #140  
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Geo-fencing weapons is an interesting philosophical reasoning ending in a catch-22 thing.

If weapons could be blocked and not working outside your nation, no one could attack anyone else which would be great because no war could start. OTOH, if no wars could start, why would any nation need any such weapons as they no longer need defences? So if geo-fenced weapons existed they would stop to exist!
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Old Mar 8, 22, 6:22 am
  #141  
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Originally Posted by intuition View Post
Geo-fencing weapons is an interesting philosophical reasoning ending in a catch-22 thing.

If weapons could be blocked and not working outside your nation, no one could attack anyone else which would be great because no war could start. OTOH, if no wars could start, why would any nation need any such weapons as they no longer need defences? So if geo-fenced weapons existed they would stop to exist!
Weapons systems geo-fenced by legally binding agreements have not stopped existing.

How effective various geo-fencing approaches are is of course up in the air. Just ask the Swedish air force how it goes with Russian incursions.

Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 8, 22 at 6:27 am
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Old Mar 8, 22, 7:35 am
  #142  
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Well, "legally binding" is a rather hypothetical term in an era where compliance is "sure we signed, who cares, if you want me to comply you come and make me".
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Old Mar 8, 22, 7:38 am
  #143  
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Is that how FInnair is with ticket refunds?
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Old Mar 8, 22, 8:13 am
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Originally Posted by jrfsp320 View Post
I booked going the other way in June, with connections at both ends, im hoping they bring forward the HEL departure time there too to maintain arrival time in SIN
The departure time at HEL will most definitely not be moved earlier, as that would break most inbound connections from Europe, which arrive around 23:00 local time.
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Old Mar 8, 22, 12:25 pm
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Originally Posted by intuition View Post
Well, "legally binding" is a rather hypothetical term in an era where compliance is "sure we signed, who cares, if you want me to comply you come and make me".
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Old Mar 8, 22, 3:55 pm
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So the (twice) daily trains from St Petersburg to Helsinki are only available to people from Finland or Russia? They seem full as is -- in the direction of Helsinki -- but given the airspace closure and increased demand to take the train, will VR(+RR) up it to at least three per day soon? I would assume that a bunch of those train passengers may be in the market to fly AY. Is there some kind of AY+VR cooperation?
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Old Mar 8, 22, 4:00 pm
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There have been talks, but so far, it's only two daily trains. Used to be four pre-covid. There is no AY+VR cooperation. And yes, only Finnish and Russian citizens are allowed on the trains, as per Russian regulations.
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Old Mar 9, 22, 8:22 am
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Well this messed up our trip to Japan. It was already very uncertain will Japan reopen for tourists, but now AY canceled our HEL-KIX flights and did not offer any alternative flights. They also canceled NRT-HEL but those they moved us to another flight later that day. We had award flights. I called the plat line about it. There is a flight to Tokyo for the day before, but she said they can't put us on that flight, because there is no reward availability, in fact the flight is almost fully booked.

Is this really legal? Shouldn't EU261 apply here, they must reroute us if we want to, even using another airline? The clear thing would be to move us to the HEL-NRT flight the day before and then fly us with JAL to KIX.

The operator wasn't willing to discuss rerouting, said it does not apply to reward flights and because it is over 14 days to the flight. The only option was to change the dates and that is subject to reward availability, which there is not with so few flights and also I believe they are not flying full planes because of the long distance.
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Old Mar 9, 22, 8:39 am
  #149  
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Originally Posted by ffay005 View Post
There have been talks, but so far, it's only two daily trains. Used to be four pre-covid. There is no AY+VR cooperation. And yes, only Finnish and Russian citizens are allowed on the trains, as per Russian regulations.
Two state owned companies. Who would have thought?

(For crying out loud, even AY has some form of fly&rail co-operation with DB)
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Old Mar 9, 22, 10:06 am
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Originally Posted by srieppo View Post
Well this messed up our trip to Japan. It was already very uncertain will Japan reopen for tourists, but now AY canceled our HEL-KIX flights and did not offer any alternative flights. They also canceled NRT-HEL but those they moved us to another flight later that day. We had award flights. I called the plat line about it. There is a flight to Tokyo for the day before, but she said they can't put us on that flight, because there is no reward availability, in fact the flight is almost fully booked.

Is this really legal? Shouldn't EU261 apply here, they must reroute us if we want to, even using another airline? The clear thing would be to move us to the HEL-NRT flight the day before and then fly us with JAL to KIX.

The operator wasn't willing to discuss rerouting, said it does not apply to reward flights and because it is over 14 days to the flight. The only option was to change the dates and that is subject to reward availability, which there is not with so few flights and also I believe they are not flying full planes because of the long distance.
EC261 is applicable.
The operator would need some additional reading time because:
1. Its specifically mentioned in the guidelines that award tickets are covered.
2. The limit of 14 days only concerns the Article 7 related to compensations.
3. New dates cannot be subject to award availability as the only requirement is seat availability in the same travel class (can be proven by a screenshot of seats on sale).
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