Ed Size

I never asked that much time in advance, most of the time itīs something between 2 - 6 weeks. And I often saw the situation that it was hard or impossible to get upgrades/awards while the J cabin was full of operational upgrades due to oversold Y.

intuition

Not sure if it was rhetorical, but I'll bite

No, I can't name such a FF program. But the bigger picture for me, as a longhaul J traveller, is that one of the few useful perks in Finnair+ is the upgrade vouchers.

I appreciate the upgrades can represent different things to different travellers. On one extreme, it is more of a lottery ticket and as such being on a waitlist just adds to the excitement.
In the middle field perhaps flyers count on it to clear, but don't care if it doesn't.

Perhaps I am on the other extreme, but to me the vouchers are worthless unless 100% confirmed. The "implied contract" between AY and me has been that I fly all my longhauls in J with Finnair. I pay full price for 80% of them, and for that last 20% of J flights, they only charge a Y ticket.

For me, and probably for those who mainly fly longhaul J year after year, the upgrade voucher is not just another marketing give-away - it is a part of the yearly budget as they represent around 10-15% discount of total cost.

This makes the real question (to me) "What airlines will take me to Asia in J 4-5 times a year within my budget".

NoWindowSeat

I can completely relate to both Ed and intuition and their views on this. However, the problem is not solved by axing the wait list. It would require much more sophisticated system, which I unfortunately do not see on the horizon.

Ed Size

This also kicks in if you are consider that you never get an operational upgrade as a top tier flyer. If I go with an airline that still offers F, I would have a good chance that I either get operational upgrades or upgrades with points/vouchers getting cleared. (which is a nice touch but....). So you never fly in a class you never would book.

Itīs the overall product that leads you to an specific airline, and as I said AY still offers a solid product, but itīs going downhill from my perspective. (the "new" seats on the A350 alone are reason enough to go elsewhere).

Ed Size

The sophisticated system is already there - talk to an CS rep who understands your problem and who knows that they can do something which is not on page 1 of their book, but this needs some commitment by the staff.

intuition

Oh, absolutely. No axing of waitlist!

I see several options, some already vented in the thread. But realistically speaking, I too think there might not be any changes any time soon.

on22cz

I think UA uses a specific fare bucket for elites. Maybe that would be a way for AY, too. Return availability to the previous levels, but move anything currently hidden (can it be 50-75%?) to a new bucket that will only be visible in the online upgrade tool when logged-in as Lumo/Plat - in addition to the standard F bucket. All Golds* and lower would still use the F bucket only. They could also consider that Lumo upgrade would clear any time when I is available. Or if implementing the new fare bucket would be too difficult, they could just set a rule that any time I is available, Lumo/Plat can still upgrade (they would open up F seat). This would be TK/A3 style.
It would create more transparent environment for our upgrades, but it would also mean any additional waitlist clearance would be confirmed 12-24 hours before departure (by rule). I believe the problem for many is that there is a lack of information whether the request clears immediately, or will remain waitlisted for unspecified period of time. While this wouldn't remove the waitlist lottery, it sure would make life of many easier - be it an acceptance of Y trip risk, or booking on another airline.

*Sorry, but there is too many Golds to include them in the exceptional bucket rule.

Purjelentaja

Excellent proposal!

Justinus

I agree, but the problem is different. Previously the waitlists used to be an exception, i.e. if there was truly no available seat in J, you were put on a waitlist. I am fully OK with that!

Today, waitlists have become the norm. Even if the entire J cabin is empty, you are put on a waitlist. Just today I booked CPH-HEL-CPH for June/July. Both flights show an empty J cabin, yet I was put on the waitlist. And you can never be sure, whether the upgrade will be cleared or not. This is the problem.

intuition

I think they already have the tech for this kind of logic (only release F if I exists)
Because it sound very similar to the "Dual Inventory Fares" within the AJB, where upgrade fares from econ to econ plus only exists based on certain inventory. DIF is even more complex as it require a combination of fares in the different cabins:



We agree 100%.
(My reply got out of sequence, but if you check my earlier post you'll see I used too many words to say exactly what you said :-)

remymartin

Sadly, I foresee the upcoming PE will make this whole thread moot..

NoWindowSeat

Courmisch

Yes

ffay005

I don't really know about that. It would be very easy to keep the current system by requiring 25k for a one-class upgrade and simultaneously allow two-class upgrades, so 50k for Y to J.

Similarly, the vouchers could be converted into credits, where 1 credit = Euro Y -> J, 2 credits = one-class longhaul and 4 credits = two-class longhaul.

Let's hope AY reads this!

WilcoRoger

Yes, I saw NGO and KIX availably also around my dates online, and even NRT-HEL, so yes, it's not totally dead. But the tendency is clear - intended or not.