DISRUPTIONS ON JAN 17 DUE TO HEAVY SNOWFALL AT HELSINKI AIRPORT - again
Jan 23, 2019, 1:08 am
#18
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: HEL
Programs: Drawer of Cards
Posts: 423
Was on ay88 on 17th, shortly after take off my wife texting me
- "are you still coming back today? "
-" Why not??? im on board already"
-" Snow storm in hel, flights getting canceled. "
AY landed like a boss! ! thumb up!
- "are you still coming back today? "
-" Why not??? im on board already"
-" Snow storm in hel, flights getting canceled. "
AY landed like a boss! ! thumb up!
Jan 27, 2019, 12:28 pm
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
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More snow coming, up to 20 cm powder snow, blowing horizontally (Tue/Wed)
Also on the weather front - this morning we broke this winter's record at -38,7°C (that's -37,7°F, for people stuck with Imperial units)
Also on the weather front - this morning we broke this winter's record at -38,7°C (that's -37,7°F, for people stuck with Imperial units)
Jan 27, 2019, 3:24 pm
#20
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
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Farenheit isn't really an imperial unit. At least not of that empire.
(I believe 0F and 100F is supposed to match lowest/highest possible temp in NL in the 18th century)
(I believe 0F and 100F is supposed to match lowest/highest possible temp in NL in the 18th century)
Jan 27, 2019, 3:49 pm
#21
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 331
But that was in the northern Finland, at Vantaa last night's lowest temperature was only -18.9°C and couple hours ago it was -20.1°C. Sure, I guess those who are not accustomed to cold weather and/or venturing outdoors without proper winter clothing will find these temperatures in the southern Finland already sufficiently freezing.
Jan 28, 2019, 11:21 am
#23
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 331
I guessed right last night: since it started snowing, only 15/33 has been used for all landings and takeoffs and given there has to be frequent snow removal runs, it means that further limits how often ATC can let planes on the runway. Thus having 1/3 of the normal runway capacity available, this obviously means delays and some cancellations to give the rest of the traffic better chance to operate.
Luckily AY9/10 isn't operating today since apparently ORD is in even worse situation with the winter weather as within 24 hours there has been over 800 cancellations...
Luckily AY9/10 isn't operating today since apparently ORD is in even worse situation with the winter weather as within 24 hours there has been over 800 cancellations...
Jan 28, 2019, 12:25 pm
#25
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
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This would make an interesting EC261 case: weather is definitely force majeure, but if you CXL well in advance, and apparently pick the flights on commercial grounds (light loads, easy reroutes etc), then wouldn't this mean that the CXL is at least partially commercial and not entirely weather related? Weather sounds more like an excuse than a reason.
Jan 28, 2019, 12:48 pm
#26
Join Date: May 2014
Location: HEL
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Posts: 3,620
At least most of the flights in question were already cancelled yesterday evening.
But if ATC says there will be restrictions on number of slots, then the airline has to pick flights to cancel. I think it's hard to argue that it is not caused by weather.
But if ATC says there will be restrictions on number of slots, then the airline has to pick flights to cancel. I think it's hard to argue that it is not caused by weather.
Jan 28, 2019, 11:34 pm
#28
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Switzerland
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No chance. Due to weather there are ATC restrictions which leads to cancellations. It is out of AY‘s control.
The same discussion is happening regularily on the BA board.
When there is bad weather at LHR there is a reduced flow rate and BA will cancel flights — mostly domestics and shorthaul destinations with many frequencies.
The same discussion is happening regularily on the BA board.
When there is bad weather at LHR there is a reduced flow rate and BA will cancel flights — mostly domestics and shorthaul destinations with many frequencies.
Jan 29, 2019, 8:56 am
#29
Join Date: May 2014
Location: HEL
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Posts: 3,620
It seems to me that optimizing is better for both the airlines and the passengers, than randomizing. Admittedly, this leads to an unfair situation whereby the same flights are likely to be optimized away again and again, but I cannot see any better alternative.
Jan 29, 2019, 9:09 am
#30
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Posts: 8,749
Yeah, clearly it’s good for the airline as well as for the customer to pick flights that have light loads or flights where pax can be rerouted easily. However, it’s also clear that those decisions are made on a commercial basis, especially since they make them far in advance (which is also to the benefit of both parties, as such).
I had a different kind of case that I ultimately took to KRIL over ten years ago. My flight to NUE was cancelled because one Embraer had gone tech. Not the NUE plane, though, but AY chose to cancel that flight for whatever reason so they changed their rotation plan. Again, good for the airline and probably good for the customers, if they had like 100 pax to GOT and 15 to NUE, or whatever.
KRIL, however, reasoned that the CXL was actually done for commercial reasons and that AY was due EC261. (In those days, KRIL was still very lenient about tech problems and in an intermediary decision, they actually suggested that I take my claim back because there was not going to be a recommendation in my favour as the reason for the CXL was tech. I then had to explain the situation in more detail and google about NUE cancellations, which there were plenty of).
So I think this would be an interesting case, but like I said, if I was affected, I probably wouldn’t fight for it. Weather still lies behind that commercial decision, so it’s a hit or miss really.
I had a different kind of case that I ultimately took to KRIL over ten years ago. My flight to NUE was cancelled because one Embraer had gone tech. Not the NUE plane, though, but AY chose to cancel that flight for whatever reason so they changed their rotation plan. Again, good for the airline and probably good for the customers, if they had like 100 pax to GOT and 15 to NUE, or whatever.
KRIL, however, reasoned that the CXL was actually done for commercial reasons and that AY was due EC261. (In those days, KRIL was still very lenient about tech problems and in an intermediary decision, they actually suggested that I take my claim back because there was not going to be a recommendation in my favour as the reason for the CXL was tech. I then had to explain the situation in more detail and google about NUE cancellations, which there were plenty of).
So I think this would be an interesting case, but like I said, if I was affected, I probably wouldn’t fight for it. Weather still lies behind that commercial decision, so it’s a hit or miss really.