Speculations of new Finnair routes or frequencies
Nov 17, 2018, 2:12 am
#31
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Just my own thought, but the seasonality could be one main reason of not seeing success on the route. For the high-yielding pax, corporate travellers, seasonal and "a few times a week" schedule just isn't enough. They'll probably take their money somewhere else, most likely to a carrier who provides daily frequencies.
Exactly!
What business would sign up for a transportation service that runs intermittently?
Nov 17, 2018, 2:30 am
#32
Join Date: Feb 2001
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I wouldn't be surprised if AY would start a second daily to Beijing when Daxing opens, keeping the existing flight to Capital Airport and adding a new one to Daxing.
A friend of mine bought multiple returns for last summer between HEL and CAN when AY had the J offers there. On one of his flights the purser told him in the Plat talk that they could fill even more planes from CAN so looks like they have now managed to get customers. Upgauging the equipment to A350 also supports this.
However AY has been increasing the frequencies to HKG so if they would really see enough growth opportunities in CAN and if there would be slots available there, I would say they would have added flights to CAN instead of HKG.
The reason IMO why Finnair isn't bothered with CAN is
a) they entered with wrong attitude/business plan and was forced out in 2009. I am not sure they understand that market even today.
b) they have only secured a limited license and there might be obstacles to get a year-round daily
c) they might be flying to CAN only to protect current license
d) they have slots at HKG and need to protect them. With a limited number of planes, HKG wins. Especially when the myth that HKG is serving Guangdong equally good is strong.
a) they entered with wrong attitude/business plan and was forced out in 2009. I am not sure they understand that market even today.
b) they have only secured a limited license and there might be obstacles to get a year-round daily
c) they might be flying to CAN only to protect current license
d) they have slots at HKG and need to protect them. With a limited number of planes, HKG wins. Especially when the myth that HKG is serving Guangdong equally good is strong.
However AY has been increasing the frequencies to HKG so if they would really see enough growth opportunities in CAN and if there would be slots available there, I would say they would have added flights to CAN instead of HKG.
Nov 17, 2018, 4:19 am
#33
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I'd be surprised if the Chinese would grant Finnair a second frequency to Beijing any more than to Shanghai, at least not until a Chinese carrier starts the route. If CZ does really join Oneworld, it seems far more likely that any second frequency would be operated by them from their future Daxing hub.
Nov 18, 2018, 5:00 pm
#34
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As far as North America is concerned, I wouldn’t be expecting many new destinations here. AY currently only operates JFK as a daily year-round destination. The attempt to operate MIA year-round failed. My guess is their North American focus is to add frequencies and extend seasons.
If AY were to open a new destination in the US, my bets would be on DFW. It’s AA’s largest hub and it would offer very good connections all across the US, and even to Mexico and Latin America. DFW is also an important destination in its own right, so there would be demand between northern Europe and DFW.
The other big AA hubs (PHL, CLT) aren’t that important destinations in their own right, and you can connect at ORD (or to some extent at JFK), so I don’t see much potential here.
In the US, Hawaii would be out-of-the-box. Haapalainen presented a nice schedule where one plane could operate three weeklies (and some DXB in between). A trip from Europe to Hawaii always requires a change of planes en route, and in surprisingly many cases even two, with schedules that aren’t always that convenient, so AY would definitely have an advantage here. They could offer all those honeymooners and well-off holiday makers a one-stop choice with good schedules from all over Europe. It shouldn’t even be too difficult to fill a J cabin on this route even if it’s leisure heavy.
We shouldn’t forget Canada, of course. YYZ has been served by AY before, and I believe it was popular in the summer, but time goes by and I have no idea how eager the new generations of Finnish-Canadians are to visit their great-great-granparents’ home country anymore. YYZ, and a second potential destination, YVR, are well-served from Europe, especially in the summer, so there’s lots of competition. No direct flights to northen Europe, though.
If AY were to open a new destination in the US, my bets would be on DFW. It’s AA’s largest hub and it would offer very good connections all across the US, and even to Mexico and Latin America. DFW is also an important destination in its own right, so there would be demand between northern Europe and DFW.
The other big AA hubs (PHL, CLT) aren’t that important destinations in their own right, and you can connect at ORD (or to some extent at JFK), so I don’t see much potential here.
In the US, Hawaii would be out-of-the-box. Haapalainen presented a nice schedule where one plane could operate three weeklies (and some DXB in between). A trip from Europe to Hawaii always requires a change of planes en route, and in surprisingly many cases even two, with schedules that aren’t always that convenient, so AY would definitely have an advantage here. They could offer all those honeymooners and well-off holiday makers a one-stop choice with good schedules from all over Europe. It shouldn’t even be too difficult to fill a J cabin on this route even if it’s leisure heavy.
We shouldn’t forget Canada, of course. YYZ has been served by AY before, and I believe it was popular in the summer, but time goes by and I have no idea how eager the new generations of Finnish-Canadians are to visit their great-great-granparents’ home country anymore. YYZ, and a second potential destination, YVR, are well-served from Europe, especially in the summer, so there’s lots of competition. No direct flights to northen Europe, though.
Nov 19, 2018, 3:47 am
#35
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We shouldn’t forget Canada, of course. YYZ has been served by AY before, and I believe it was popular in the summer, but time goes by and I have no idea how eager the new generations of Finnish-Canadians are to visit their great-great-granparents’ home country anymore. YYZ, and a second potential destination, YVR, are well-served from Europe, especially in the summer, so there’s lots of competition. No direct flights to northen Europe, though.
Nov 19, 2018, 11:04 pm
#36
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Nov 19, 2018, 11:06 pm
#37
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Nov 19, 2018, 11:18 pm
#38
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Personal wishlist:
- Regular flights to ENF, like 3 weekly ATR during the summer season.
- Canada! Realistically it would be YYZ, but YUL/YYC/YVR would be helluva cool too. Maybe hook up with WestJet for codeshares to offer a wider network?
- SVG (talked with a Finnair manager about this on the inaugural BGO-HEL flight back in May, he said it was definitely a blip on their radar)
- GLA (but with the BREXIT insanity won't happen)
- NUE (don't understand the logic behind the HAJ route at all, Hannover is the world's most boring city whereas Nürnberg is the complete opposite)
- Caucasus: TBS/GYD/EVN. With Azerbaijan finally getting an e-visa too it'll be a far more attractive destination.
- Regular flights to ENF, like 3 weekly ATR during the summer season.
- Canada! Realistically it would be YYZ, but YUL/YYC/YVR would be helluva cool too. Maybe hook up with WestJet for codeshares to offer a wider network?
- SVG (talked with a Finnair manager about this on the inaugural BGO-HEL flight back in May, he said it was definitely a blip on their radar)
- GLA (but with the BREXIT insanity won't happen)
- NUE (don't understand the logic behind the HAJ route at all, Hannover is the world's most boring city whereas Nürnberg is the complete opposite)
- Caucasus: TBS/GYD/EVN. With Azerbaijan finally getting an e-visa too it'll be a far more attractive destination.
Nov 20, 2018, 3:00 am
#41
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: C2
Posts: 651
KUL, would be nice. Quite a lot of MH connections.
What about copying SQ concept with ARN-DME-SIN, making it HEL-IKA-KUL? Don't know if SQ's concept is succesful at all.
IKA and Teheran is a fairly well populated area. Of course there are some political issues with that destination, but for the future it might be an interesting market for AY.
What about copying SQ concept with ARN-DME-SIN, making it HEL-IKA-KUL? Don't know if SQ's concept is succesful at all.
IKA and Teheran is a fairly well populated area. Of course there are some political issues with that destination, but for the future it might be an interesting market for AY.
Nov 20, 2018, 3:48 am
#42
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I'm wondering why AY doesn't even codeshare with CX on the HKG-MNL route. I've had some situations where I would have wanted to do e.g. MNL-HEL with CX & AY, but it's actually been even marginally cheaper to book MNL-HKG & HKG-HEL on separate tickets.
Nov 20, 2018, 3:58 am
#43
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Nov 20, 2018, 6:41 pm
#45
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What about Africa?
AY currently operates a charter (yes, a 2000-series charter; those still exist) to HRG for Aurinkomatkat. In the past, there have been AY charters to AGA, DLM and LXR. The only scheduled flight to Africa that I know of was a DC9 service to CAI, operated as a tag flight from ATH/IST. I believe it’s not impossible that Aurinkomatkat would launch or relaunch some African destinations that would lead to AY starting flights, with some seats available for independent travellers, to places like SID, BJL, MBA or those previously mentioned. Could be exciting.
But to operate a true scheduled service to Africa is something that will never happen. While today’s maps of Africa show a proud patchwork of independent nations, from an economic view, Africa is still very much a bunch of colonies, with the old colonial masters being the main commercial partners. Thus, when you browse the destination lists of African airports, you will typically find at most one destination in Europe, a nonstop or one-stop flight to the old colonial capital, operated by that country’s flag carrier. Add TK and the ME3, and there really isn’t room for a player whose geographical location is of no advantage here.
If AY insisted on operating a flight to Africa, they would need to find a destination with enough demand for both business and leisure travel, enough demand from Finland, Sweden, Norway, Russia and the Baltics and an African country where not only a very small elite is wealthy enough to travel by air. The only places one could imagine would be JNB or CPT, both too far away for the 24-hour strategy to work.
AY currently operates a charter (yes, a 2000-series charter; those still exist) to HRG for Aurinkomatkat. In the past, there have been AY charters to AGA, DLM and LXR. The only scheduled flight to Africa that I know of was a DC9 service to CAI, operated as a tag flight from ATH/IST. I believe it’s not impossible that Aurinkomatkat would launch or relaunch some African destinations that would lead to AY starting flights, with some seats available for independent travellers, to places like SID, BJL, MBA or those previously mentioned. Could be exciting.
But to operate a true scheduled service to Africa is something that will never happen. While today’s maps of Africa show a proud patchwork of independent nations, from an economic view, Africa is still very much a bunch of colonies, with the old colonial masters being the main commercial partners. Thus, when you browse the destination lists of African airports, you will typically find at most one destination in Europe, a nonstop or one-stop flight to the old colonial capital, operated by that country’s flag carrier. Add TK and the ME3, and there really isn’t room for a player whose geographical location is of no advantage here.
If AY insisted on operating a flight to Africa, they would need to find a destination with enough demand for both business and leisure travel, enough demand from Finland, Sweden, Norway, Russia and the Baltics and an African country where not only a very small elite is wealthy enough to travel by air. The only places one could imagine would be JNB or CPT, both too far away for the 24-hour strategy to work.
Last edited by ffay005; Nov 20, 2018 at 6:51 pm