aama

Long story short, I wouldn't.

What comes to the case of upgrades and PE we've encountered the fear of it every time an airline introduces PE. To my knowledge that is yet to happen.

ffay005

I have actually never flown in PE myself. I had once booked an award ticket on BA, but got an op-up to J on that flight (which should be rare on award tickets, especially considering that I had no status with BA, and only used Avios transferred from Amex MR). However, having read many reviews, I would be tempted to give it a try.

I think the good news, reading this topic, is that those members who are used to travelling in J would not consider PE. Fair enough. And it’s good news because if there was a big risk of J pax moving to PE, then obviously it would not be a good move for AY. However, if I don’t misinterpret, those members that are seasoned Y flyers, could very well see themselves paying extra for a reasonably-priced PE seat.

As far as the Y product goes, I suppose price is the only factor that makes a difference to the average pax. With AY’s Sino-Japanese strategy in mind, and all those first time flyers who want to do it on the cheap, I believe reconfiguring A350 Y to 3-4-3 is only a question of time. That’s what happened with most 777 operators, too, and AY is a tad more tightwad than your average Western airline, so… After all, while AY doesn’t face LCC competition on these routes, they will have to compete with Chinese airlines, and AY’s customer base is probably very cost oriented, and not that much comfort oriented.

If they introduced a 2-3-2 PE cabin with US domestic F style seating, the same amenity kits that they offer in Y+ today and meals similar to Euro-J, I believe it would be enticing to those Y customers who would never buy J but who would be willing to fork out some extra cash to get out of the super-cramped ”Asian-sized” new Y.

The upgrade system is something that crossed my mind, too. One way to solve that would of course be to price upgrades at 25k, double the number of vouchers given to status pax, and allow double upgrades. That way, you could still upgrade from Y to J for 50k or two ”new vouchers”.

(In the MD-11s, the mid-cabin used to have 2-4-3 and the rear cabin 3-4-3. Asian groups were seated in the rear, status pax in the front, and you couldn’t really buy yourself into a good seat in those days.)

juhanh

I mostly fly between Australia and Europe. I've only ever looked QF PE prices and they are way too expensive for my leisure travel budgets - I'd rather spend the mony at the destination.
I am not really allured by better meals or FA-per-pax ratio - I can eat well enough in (F) lounges at departure (QF F lounges in both SYD and especially MEL are truly excellent) and connecting airports. I am a person who hates being singled out, and having extra attention from FAs is singling out to me.
The only thing that really matters to me is a lie flat bed - I would consider paying current PE prices if I could get a flat bed with no service (except water).

Yoshi212

PE can be a great value particularly for daytime flights. I am booked in J SFO-HEL-PRG in two weeks and LHR-JFK on VS in PE. These are both award flights and as much as I didn't like the increased Taxes & Fees charged on the VS ticket I have pretty much limited what I will accept for Y travel. I have a few specific carriers & planes I will travel in Y on LH flights but on my last trip to Africa 11 hours on a 787 in Y is torture for me being 6' tall and very broad.

When priced above Y but nowhere near J it holds enough value for me but some price it too high detracting from the value. In that case I turn to options like AA's MCE or UA's Economy plus for the extra space at generally far more reasonable prices.

kauppias

90% of my flights are in PE, I choose the carriers often based on PE being offered and the ones where miles are credited at a premium for PE. Of course I may be a minority but I find PE often well priced and J WAY over priced.

Of course if AY offered PE they would propably move the upgrade vouchers to be PE-J vouchers or Y to PE vouchers so that might not be good for elites

Currently I am flying most of my flights on SK and STAR and mostly in PE and a few upgraded Js.


I doubt many J flyers would switch to PE, those who can justify/afford J will still fly J, for me PE is just right, perhaps to SYD I will choose J or rather F but shorter flights I am just fine in PE.

Personally I would love to see PE on AY, I would fly more with them if they did. Same as upgrades with cash if they earned more miles I would bid on them but as is I have not.

jouhka

I have also flown quite many times PE on BA. On newer planes & interiors the hard product is very good and food selection has main course from J and pre-takeoff bubbly.

There has been surprisingly good PE offers lately, for example last summer our family flew (HEL)-GOT-LHR-LAX return for less than 600€ per person. I would like to see PE on AY.

-j

eefor jfp

PE is a good (even great) product when priced right. But lately on the routes I use (transatlantic) the difference between PE and discount J is negligible. So why would I pay 2400 Euro for PE when I can pay 2700 for J? Even though I'm personally paying the difference (my company pays for PE) it's worth it to me to pay 10% more to travel more comfortably and to earn/re-earn status faster. I think PE should be about half of what biz costs (or double cheapest Y), so in my example 1350 Euros for PE when super-discount Y can be had for maybe 700.

mpkz

I've flown PE on BA. Not impressed. Y Comfort on AY is much better value for money. Really good deal for customers atm, as the leg room is pretty much comparable (if not better) and any non-lie flat seat cannot be super comfortable.

haapalainen

One thing in the PE seats I've travelled in (LH, BA) that's counterintuitive in my case is that I really struggle to sleep in them. As a window seat person I can easily lean against the wall in Y but in PE the seats are always too far away from the wall and thus leaning against the wall is not possible. And the recline is not enough for me to sleep "on my back" as in J. Therefore I actually prefer AY Y comfort with empty seat next to me to a regular PE seat.

On my upccoming trip HEL-CPH-HKG-WUH (AY+CX) and back Y class was pricing at ~610€ while PE was ~930€. With that kind of price difference I coudn't resist giving CX A350 PE a chance Also this way the short-hauls are in H class and longhaul in E which means a lot more miles compared to the cheapest Y fare (On AY+ the difference is only 100% but on BA one gets 260TP in PE vs 60TP in Y per rt )

FFlash

I have no data to support but highly suspect that PE was introduced, or ”hit through” when there came a (global?) wave of company policies away from J travel to Y.

IME, the AY comfort or AA MCE styles are not ”premium economy” which I would not pay any less than 9€. I must say, without travelling on other airlines PE while only ” watching by” onboard Y or J cabin, I have only flown SK PE (”Plus”) longhaul and it was great value. 700€ to HKG from ARN and I love the concept and it seems many work travellers AND LEISURE travellers see the value too, as it seems the SK Plus cabin is alwaysmost sold out of the cabins based on my experience.

I have learnt to value the bigger seats and service if pricing is right. Same goes for TK ex-HEL shorthaul, it is worth burning upgrades or J tix on their A321 recliners, and now also A330-203 from HEL (will run on that next week)

cheung.chunyuenc

Will I buy AY PE? depends on price
My current travel pattern is BRU to HKG,
if AY have decent price from BRU to HKG, such as 850 EUR, which is not bad, given the long haul PE standard of VS, SK, CX, etc.
to be honest, BA PEY, I like the First meal catering, Noise Cancelling headphones, Entertainment, but not the Breakfast, Seat, Service, etc.

If anyone wish to have a BA tier point run, 90 tier point for long haul+ 5/10 tier points for short haul, 2/3 of a BA Bronze (Oneworld Ruby) and 1/3 of a BA Silver (Oneworld Sapphire)
Do you think the price of AY is competitive? (In both J and Y)
From BRU, no
From CDG, yes

intuition

From a real world example.

I was asked to look for flight for someone going to CAN. Person is set on economy, but would appreciate a better seat, especially on night flights.

Finnair offers:
CPH-CAN is 785€ as non refundable, non rebookable. 835€ for rebookable with fee. Comfort add-on is another 140€, but at that price it looks like seat selection on the shorthaul is included (or the booking engine is broken - it quotes seat selection on SH to cost 0€ but 10000 points). So total 975€.

Now, Finnair doesn't serve CAN daily so the 975€ includes a compromise of flying one day earlier than planned. So I keep looking for other options.

Cathay Pacific offers:
CPH-CAN 740€ on a refundable, rebookable ticket in ordinary Y on the exact days wanted (and 645€ if flyer is willing to select days as in AY option). Flight duration very similar, CX has night flights both ways, where AY has dayflight on the return.

But the thing is, CX offers real premium economy from 985€ if traveller is willing to budge on the date requirement. For the exact dates PE is 195€ more, 1280€.


Traveller feels disappointed by Finnair not having daily flights and decides on CX. Then decides for PE on CX, despite the rather hefty price on that day.