Finnair Plus will get ”fantastic new improvements”
#16
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
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First, everyone should realise that some people working in a certain airline's loyalty department are reading this forum daily. Saying things like "the program is too good" or "revenue based is coming" is not entirely the smartest thing to do. Remember also that FT'ers are a miniscule part of the memberbase. And people flying DY HEL- stockholm just to fly AY back to HEL via PRG is a miniscule part of that tiny part of the member base
Secondly, Norwegian reward is not at all money-based. Sure, they do have a discount system where your spend earns towards future discounts. But their loyalty system is entirely segment based. I can earn "status" in their system for 121€. How is that for insane? But does it crate loyalty? As someone who earned lvl 4 in DY Reward I can say it is pretty pointless. Not only flaws in how the perks work, but also the fact that none of their perks can outweigh constant delays and parking at the "wrong" terminal and using buses even when gates are available.
(Typical example of DY delay is when there schedule don't take into account that staff coming from Ex-schengen need to clear immigration, so suddenly captain has to walk from one terminal to another to show passport. )
Secondly, Norwegian reward is not at all money-based. Sure, they do have a discount system where your spend earns towards future discounts. But their loyalty system is entirely segment based. I can earn "status" in their system for 121€. How is that for insane? But does it crate loyalty? As someone who earned lvl 4 in DY Reward I can say it is pretty pointless. Not only flaws in how the perks work, but also the fact that none of their perks can outweigh constant delays and parking at the "wrong" terminal and using buses even when gates are available.
(Typical example of DY delay is when there schedule don't take into account that staff coming from Ex-schengen need to clear immigration, so suddenly captain has to walk from one terminal to another to show passport. )
#17
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,043
First, everyone should realise that some people working in a certain airline's loyalty department are reading this forum daily. Saying things like "the program is too good" or "revenue based is coming" is not entirely the smartest thing to do. Remember also that FT'ers are a miniscule part of the memberbase. And people flying DY HEL- stockholm just to fly AY back to HEL via PRG is a miniscule part of that tiny part of the member base
They are going to fix it, no matter what we write here.
#18
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
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Posts: 14,132
I honestly don't see it as any sickness. There are marginal issues in any rule based system.
A very small part of the member base lives entirely in this margin. At the same time the program most probably delivers on the goals set up. By making a small issue into a problem that must be fixed can actually jeopardize the major goals of the program.
I've run multiple loyalty programs over the years and from experience I can say that even minor tweakings can have major unwanted effects.
A very small part of the member base lives entirely in this margin. At the same time the program most probably delivers on the goals set up. By making a small issue into a problem that must be fixed can actually jeopardize the major goals of the program.
I've run multiple loyalty programs over the years and from experience I can say that even minor tweakings can have major unwanted effects.
#19
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
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If you shift how the loyalty tiers are earned, you shift the focus and the memberbase of the program. The question is if that will help AY earn more money.
Which tickets would earn most "loylaty-points" in the system suggested above? Longhaul from HEL and shorthaul business class. So you will tilt the AY+ member base to be dominated by this geography/demography.
But Finns are already loyal to AY. Why do you think a longhaul ticket ex-HEL cost 4000€? Because the local market accepts it. So what good does it do to have all your high tier members in HEL area? The catchment area for HEL is maybe 1 million people. Are there enough Nyland people for Finnair to live on?
Contries/marketing areas where purchasing power is lower than in Finland has "cheaper" tickets (PPP) and thus would have fewer tier members. You can't sell 4000€ tickets in Hungary for instance, so very few people there will climb the tiers. Won't the program fail to offer incentive in low PPP areas, where people also have a lot of choices besides an obscure airline from some snowy country?
And why should the thousands and thousands of salarymen flying daily/weekly between STO and HEL in the back of the bus stick with AY that no longer rewards their loyalty, because they "only" spend 69€ on the ticket? D8/DY will be laughing all the way to the bank, when they sell 59€ tickets and get 100% loadfactor.
My take, without knowing the specific numbers, is that such changes won't benefit AY.
Which tickets would earn most "loylaty-points" in the system suggested above? Longhaul from HEL and shorthaul business class. So you will tilt the AY+ member base to be dominated by this geography/demography.
But Finns are already loyal to AY. Why do you think a longhaul ticket ex-HEL cost 4000€? Because the local market accepts it. So what good does it do to have all your high tier members in HEL area? The catchment area for HEL is maybe 1 million people. Are there enough Nyland people for Finnair to live on?
Contries/marketing areas where purchasing power is lower than in Finland has "cheaper" tickets (PPP) and thus would have fewer tier members. You can't sell 4000€ tickets in Hungary for instance, so very few people there will climb the tiers. Won't the program fail to offer incentive in low PPP areas, where people also have a lot of choices besides an obscure airline from some snowy country?
And why should the thousands and thousands of salarymen flying daily/weekly between STO and HEL in the back of the bus stick with AY that no longer rewards their loyalty, because they "only" spend 69€ on the ticket? D8/DY will be laughing all the way to the bank, when they sell 59€ tickets and get 100% loadfactor.
My take, without knowing the specific numbers, is that such changes won't benefit AY.
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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There are no airlines in Oneworld offering this. Only example of this is the Star Alliance upgrades, which are more theoretical than practical.
#21
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Helsinki
Programs: A3 Gold, BA Silver
Posts: 1,014
<br /><br />Not necessarily. Only M&M award miles are revenue based. Status qualification is still based on the old system.<br /><br />We might be wiser on Thursday. Two years ago the changes were announced during the first day of Matkamessut.
#22
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seat 1L these days :)
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#24
#25
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#26
Join Date: Aug 2003
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#27
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#29
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#30
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Honestly, I've never tried on partner airlines. I find the co-pay a bit too rich for one way upgrades.