Comparing AY to QR who wins?
Mar 10, 2019, 4:11 pm
#61
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
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Sorry, revisiting and now trying to answer about upgrading from Y...
With the same conditions as before (50% Y earning, point boosters, excluding any tier bonus) the 2,5 returns earns pretty much a one-way upgrade from economy saver to business.
Mind you, this is upgrade on 2 "longhaul" segments. Also, QR has different tariffs for upgrading from campaign, saver or flex fares. The cheaper Y ticket, the more points needed for upgrade.
With the same conditions as before (50% Y earning, point boosters, excluding any tier bonus) the 2,5 returns earns pretty much a one-way upgrade from economy saver to business.
Mind you, this is upgrade on 2 "longhaul" segments. Also, QR has different tariffs for upgrading from campaign, saver or flex fares. The cheaper Y ticket, the more points needed for upgrade.
If QR allows a one-way upgrade after 2.5 returns in Y/50%, then I suppose you need far less than 2.5 returns in J for a return J upgrade on a saver ticket.
Mar 10, 2019, 4:34 pm
#62
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
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Well, the point boosters make a world of difference. (They do come and go quite a lot these days, and there are also TP-boosters, recently there was a 2x TP for all flights taken during 2019 if booked before FEB28)
Without them, HEL-BKK R/t in cheapest J earns 15k as pleb. (24k as Gold and 27k as plat). So without any boosters there is a need for 3-4 r/t before one upgrade. Not very
At 5x in premium cabins, the picture is quite different. N.B. one must consult people over at QR fora exactly how the 5x is counted, there is fineprint that bonus is counted towards "base points", probably what the route earns at 100%. I believe HEL-BKK is 12k r/t at 100%)
You can play the calculator at https://www.qatarairways.com/en-se/P...alculator.html
Both earning and redeeming is pretty easily found.
Also to consider - upgrades are capacity controlled, and QR is fiercely protecting their premium cabins. For instance, I requested J->F upgrade for points on DOH-SYD both ways but was only granted on the outbound. I think we were 2 in the cabin so it is not like they are trying to fill it.
On the homebound there was zero pax in the F cabin. How I know? I got op-up:ed instead of paid upgrade and was alone!
But in general, I have too little experience to say how often upgrades clear compared to AY.
Without them, HEL-BKK R/t in cheapest J earns 15k as pleb. (24k as Gold and 27k as plat). So without any boosters there is a need for 3-4 r/t before one upgrade. Not very
At 5x in premium cabins, the picture is quite different. N.B. one must consult people over at QR fora exactly how the 5x is counted, there is fineprint that bonus is counted towards "base points", probably what the route earns at 100%. I believe HEL-BKK is 12k r/t at 100%)
You can play the calculator at https://www.qatarairways.com/en-se/P...alculator.html
Both earning and redeeming is pretty easily found.
Also to consider - upgrades are capacity controlled, and QR is fiercely protecting their premium cabins. For instance, I requested J->F upgrade for points on DOH-SYD both ways but was only granted on the outbound. I think we were 2 in the cabin so it is not like they are trying to fill it.
On the homebound there was zero pax in the F cabin. How I know? I got op-up:ed instead of paid upgrade and was alone!
But in general, I have too little experience to say how often upgrades clear compared to AY.
Mar 12, 2019, 4:40 pm
#63
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,685
My 2 cents, as ex-TLL flyer.
As ATR-72 is on TLL-HEL route, we have to endure bus transfers in winter climate anyway (not taking my winter coats to tropics), but what I have been really pissed off, that last A350 arrivals, with 300+ travelers have also been stand arrivals. And of course no special bus for business class, so it pretty much ruins the transfer. And dont get me started what a zoo the whole airport Schengen area and lounges is between 3-5pm.
No such issues with QR so far, I think 1 bus transfer during my 20-plus flights.
With upgrades, its been 4/4 "success rate", when I have been in airport bag drop confusedly asked "are you gonna pay for Tll-Hel seat selection?), altough reported it to AY 3 months ago, IT glitch is still there.
Regarding flights I wonder did I fly different airlines than most of people here? Its the QR where FAs are friendly, make small talk, purser introduces him/herself etc. Nothing robotic whatsoever about it.
With AY I have never got real human interaction, maybe its because im not Finnish and they cant chat in their own language so they prefer to keep to themselves. Although on last Asian flights there has been mostly Asian crew, only without effective and fast service unlike QR.
I have spent all of my AY points and vouchers, so unless flying A350 to Dubai, back to QR now on Australasian routes, which I am really happy about. Right now they got 1400 EUR tickets to SIN ex-ARN, with WIDE availaiblity which suits perfectly to my needs. Even with TLL-ARN tickets its 1500. AY has 1800 ex-TLL on cheapest, but the availability is neligible
Even if there is few dates during whole month, the problem is, because of TLL-HEL route being overwhelmed, from 7 daily flights there is I-class available in 1 only, leaving only 11h or overnight transfer in HEL.
As ATR-72 is on TLL-HEL route, we have to endure bus transfers in winter climate anyway (not taking my winter coats to tropics), but what I have been really pissed off, that last A350 arrivals, with 300+ travelers have also been stand arrivals. And of course no special bus for business class, so it pretty much ruins the transfer. And dont get me started what a zoo the whole airport Schengen area and lounges is between 3-5pm.
No such issues with QR so far, I think 1 bus transfer during my 20-plus flights.
With upgrades, its been 4/4 "success rate", when I have been in airport bag drop confusedly asked "are you gonna pay for Tll-Hel seat selection?), altough reported it to AY 3 months ago, IT glitch is still there.
Regarding flights I wonder did I fly different airlines than most of people here? Its the QR where FAs are friendly, make small talk, purser introduces him/herself etc. Nothing robotic whatsoever about it.
With AY I have never got real human interaction, maybe its because im not Finnish and they cant chat in their own language so they prefer to keep to themselves. Although on last Asian flights there has been mostly Asian crew, only without effective and fast service unlike QR.
I have spent all of my AY points and vouchers, so unless flying A350 to Dubai, back to QR now on Australasian routes, which I am really happy about. Right now they got 1400 EUR tickets to SIN ex-ARN, with WIDE availaiblity which suits perfectly to my needs. Even with TLL-ARN tickets its 1500. AY has 1800 ex-TLL on cheapest, but the availability is neligible
Even if there is few dates during whole month, the problem is, because of TLL-HEL route being overwhelmed, from 7 daily flights there is I-class available in 1 only, leaving only 11h or overnight transfer in HEL.
Reasons:
1) Huge devaluation in points this year make earnings quite bad
2) The boosters right now are basically their desperate attempt to get people back - last year, we saw almost no boosters
3) They no longer have the great pricing on J fares
4) Anything not in the air is basically terrible - ground service in Doha is clueless compared to AY, priv club support is nonexistent and so on
5) Until recently, upgrade availability on QR has been terrible. I think they opened up a bit more space now with FFs leaving in droves.
6) Flights on almost all OW partners earn next to nothing on QR
But QR is much much better in the air. Also, some QR flights earn ok on AY - I had one HEL-DOH-HKG which ended up netting me more points than HEL-HKG on AY, though normally it will be less.
Mar 13, 2019, 3:06 am
#64
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
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This was good to know.
About the pricing, I guess we knew it was not sustainable. And I dont mind payinc a bit for theif quality in the air.
About the pricing, I guess we knew it was not sustainable. And I dont mind payinc a bit for theif quality in the air.
Mar 13, 2019, 4:44 am
#65
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Location: HEL
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For instance, I requested J->F upgrade for points on DOH-SYD both ways but was only granted on the outbound. I think we were 2 in the cabin so it is not like they are trying to fill it.
On the homebound there was zero pax in the F cabin. How I know? I got op-up:ed instead of paid upgrade and was alone!
On the homebound there was zero pax in the F cabin. How I know? I got op-up:ed instead of paid upgrade and was alone!
Mar 13, 2019, 6:10 am
#66
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Join Date: May 2011
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Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
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In my opinion:
The step up from J to F isn't 'moving mountains' big. Mostly due to J already being good in the first place.
Some positive things from my recollection
* Many FA during boarding/pre-departure. Fond memory of hot arabian coffee as PDB, served from silverware in mini cups.
* Good food and wines, but J isn't bad at all as you know.
* The low load factor made the F cabin very quite and stressfree
* Huge toilets (2). Size of a student dorm room, no kidding.
* Went to toilet to change to nightwear and left my clothes in there. When I woke up, it was neatly hanged in my personal wardrobe.
Some negatives
* Some CC (even from other cabins) came into F only to use toilet
* If you want to hang in the bar, you have a pretty long walk from F (and you'll get worse champagne over there...)
I did 2 legs in F on DOH-SYD. If an opportunity for points upgrade or a decently priced offer in cash would appear again, I would very likely go F again. That said, if you are accustomed to QR J, you won't be blown away. But it is always nice to be separated from the riff-raff in J
The step up from J to F isn't 'moving mountains' big. Mostly due to J already being good in the first place.
Some positive things from my recollection
* Many FA during boarding/pre-departure. Fond memory of hot arabian coffee as PDB, served from silverware in mini cups.
* Good food and wines, but J isn't bad at all as you know.
* The low load factor made the F cabin very quite and stressfree
* Huge toilets (2). Size of a student dorm room, no kidding.
* Went to toilet to change to nightwear and left my clothes in there. When I woke up, it was neatly hanged in my personal wardrobe.
Some negatives
* Some CC (even from other cabins) came into F only to use toilet
* If you want to hang in the bar, you have a pretty long walk from F (and you'll get worse champagne over there...)
I did 2 legs in F on DOH-SYD. If an opportunity for points upgrade or a decently priced offer in cash would appear again, I would very likely go F again. That said, if you are accustomed to QR J, you won't be blown away. But it is always nice to be separated from the riff-raff in J
Mar 13, 2019, 3:58 pm
#68
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Join Date: May 2011
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I can't find any winelist right now. And I'm not the connoisseur to know and remember. All I remember is that I was happy with both food and drinks but not blown away.
Mar 13, 2019, 7:42 pm
#70
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: LTN
Programs: Aeroflot Bonus, British Airways Executive Club
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Is QR a real competitor to AY?! QR is in the middle east, and AY is in northern Europe, they are serving completely different markets! I have never considered QR as an alternative to the AY flights I take between Northern Europe and Asia, as going via middle east isn't simply viable.
I consider SU to be the main competitor to AY because of the close proximity between SVO and HEL, although they have codeshares.
I consider SU to be the main competitor to AY because of the close proximity between SVO and HEL, although they have codeshares.
Mar 13, 2019, 7:51 pm
#71
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You'd be amazed at what people do when the price is right. And when there is no direct ex-HEL, flight times arent that different. Especially in J, QR is a very good alternative to AY.
Similarly, you'd be amazed at how few Finns even consider SU an alternative to pretty much anything.
Similarly, you'd be amazed at how few Finns even consider SU an alternative to pretty much anything.
Mar 13, 2019, 8:11 pm
#72
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 938
If you're travelling from HEL to any city in SEA not served directly by AY (MNL, SGN, KUL, CGK, DPS etc or to Australasia), the travel time is pretty much the same. If you're travelling to these cities from ARN, GOT, OSL, CPH you do not need to change planes twice, just once at DOH. Not to mention the superior business class product (both hard and soft) QR offers. The downside for many is the transit 'in the middle of the night' in many cases.
Mar 13, 2019, 9:19 pm
#73
Join Date: Aug 2017
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If you're travelling from HEL to any city in SEA not served directly by AY (MNL, SGN, KUL, CGK, DPS etc or to Australasia), the travel time is pretty much the same. If you're travelling to these cities from ARN, GOT, OSL, CPH you do not need to change planes twice, just once at DOH. Not to mention the superior business class product (both hard and soft) QR offers. The downside for many is the transit 'in the middle of the night' in many cases.
I consider that, the more direct routing an airline offers (measured by the total distance flown, the shorter the better), the more competitive the airline is, given the same price.
For me based in HKG, if I compare AY HEL, SU SVO and QR DOH, for example, if the destination is ARN, AY offers the best routing because HEL is on the great circle path between HKG-ARN, SU comes close by 1.8% extra, and QR is simply out of consideration by 32.8% detour. Also, QR does not fly to many eastern Europe destinations where AY and SU both fly to.
Last edited by miklcct; Mar 13, 2019 at 9:44 pm
Mar 13, 2019, 10:24 pm
#74
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 938
Let's take SGN-CPH as an example. Routing via DOH is 14.5% detour, while taking TG transferring at BKK is only 1.0% detour, and AY X/HEL is only 1.4% detour. In this case TG and AY's routings are much more competitive than QR.
I consider that, the more direct routing an airline offers (measured by the total distance flown, the shorter the better), the more competitive the airline is, given the same price.
For me based in HKG, if I compare AY HEL, SU SVO and QR DOH, for example, if the destination is ARN, AY offers the best routing because HEL is on the great circle path between HKG-ARN, SU comes close by 1.8% extra, and QR is simply out of consideration by 32.8% detour. Also, QR does not fly to many eastern Europe destinations where AY and SU both fly to.
I consider that, the more direct routing an airline offers (measured by the total distance flown, the shorter the better), the more competitive the airline is, given the same price.
For me based in HKG, if I compare AY HEL, SU SVO and QR DOH, for example, if the destination is ARN, AY offers the best routing because HEL is on the great circle path between HKG-ARN, SU comes close by 1.8% extra, and QR is simply out of consideration by 32.8% detour. Also, QR does not fly to many eastern Europe destinations where AY and SU both fly to.
Mar 13, 2019, 10:41 pm
#75
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I forgot to mention that, sorry. 1 connection is certainly better than 2 connections. If the number of flight / stops are the same, then distance will be an important factor.