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The Big UPGRADE Thread – all you need to know about AY upgrades

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Old May 16, 2017, 1:37 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: lkrt
General
Upgrade space is capacity controlled, separately from revenue space in J cabin. The number of seats released to the different upgrade types are driven by a number of factors, but never by the "there are unsold seats in J cabin, let's fill them" policy some other airlines employ. Same applies with upgrades to Premium Economy.

Upgrades now book into fare bucket U, which is also used for business class awards. Note that availability tools such as Expertflyer etc. may or may not show correct U availability as AY tends to offer additional U availability to Plats and Lumos, and this hidden availability is not shown by non-AY affiliated availability tools. Premium Economy upgrade availability is in bucket F, with the above disclaimers applying similarly.

You can upgrade and review the available upgrade options at https://www.finnair.com/en/manage/upgrade.

The searches below very often show zero availability. Very few directly confirmable seats are released in particularly longhaul J. Instead upgrades must go on waitlist, from where a robot processes upgrades from an unknown set of parameters. A waitlisted upgrade can clear in minutes or never, and there is no way to know. Waitlisted upgrades are checked at T-59, 21, 10, 5 days, and at T-37 hours.

Final check most often actually takes place at approximately ~T-38 hours and you will be (most often) notified by email. In case you are denied an upgrade at this point and there is still revenue availability in J, you can contact CS which may be able to upgrade you on the spot or contact "another department" for confirmation. Furthermore, you may contact check-in desk at least in HEL, which may be able to process your upgrade.

You can check for the upgrades upon booking on the Finnair website. Each flight has a separate tab for "Upgrades", showing upgrade availability for PE and J if any exists, otherwise you will be waitlisted. Additionally, you may check your upgrade options for an already-booked flight here. EF gives you an idea of upgrade availability in the U bucket.


Upgrade-types
1. Upgrades with points
2. Upgrades with vouchers
3. Cash upgrades
5. Cash upgrades at airport
6. Complimentary upgrades

Upgrades with AY+ points

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerψe for Finnair as wetlease)
  • ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • award flights and points+money combos are ineligible (booking class X)
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)
Cost:
  • Northern Europe (ARN, BGO, CPH, GOT, KEF, KRK, OSL, WAW, WRO) 10,000 points one way
  • Rest of Europe, TLV 15,000 points one way
  • long haul (including DXB, DOH) 60,000 points one way
    • Previously, shorthaul connections were upgraded at the same cost but this has been discontinued as of 15JUN23. If you wish to upgrade a shorthaul feeder flight, a separate points charge will apply.
  • there have been some occasional promotions especially for short haul upgrades (winter and summer campaigns)
Process:
  • When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
  • once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
  • you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
  • If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
    • your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
    • If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
    • NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
  • if you waitlist, your points will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your points will be returned to you but you will lose any points that have expired during the waiting time
  • your points need to be valid at time of processing the request but they do not need to be valid on the day of the flight
  • When confirmed, you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U (or F for Premium Economy) but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
  • as an unpublished perk, you may choose to change your upgrade from a points one to a voucher one by calling AY; your points will be returned to you save for any points that may have expired
  • If you change your mind about the upgrade you may conctact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have points returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or potentially, original booking class) to allow this, and your points expiry date must not have passed.

Perks:
  • Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Upgrades with vouchers
Vouchers are given to Finnair+ members upon advancing to and retaining the platinum and gold tiers. You can see number of vouchers, their type and expiry in your Finnair+ account.

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerψe for Finnair as wetlease)
  • ticketed booking in economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • award flights booked via AY+ are also eligible (booking class X)
  • most likely, points+money combos are eligible, too, since they book into X, but we have no verification of this
  • award flights booked via parners (eg. Avios, AAdvantage etc) are not eligible
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)

Cost:
  • Northern Europe one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
  • Rest of Europe, TLV one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
  • longhaul (including DXB, DOH) one "Longhaul" voucher for a one-way flight
  • LH voucher does not include upgrade for connecting shorthaul (like it does with points upgrades), SH flight requires a separate voucher/points upgrade
  • you may exchange four European vouchers for one "Longhaul" voucher or vice versa by calling AY

Process:
  • When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
  • once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
  • you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
  • If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
    • your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
    • If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
    • NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
  • if you waitlist, your voucher will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your voucher will be returned to you but you will lose any vouchers that have expired during the waiting time
  • you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
  • If you change your mind about the upgrade you can contact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have voucher returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or original booking class) to allow this, and your voucher expiry date must not have passed.

Perks:
  • all usual J perks like priority check-in, one additional piece of baggage (23kg), priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Cash upgrades, offered on website / app
On the app as well as on the upgrade tool you can review if an upgrade is offered at a cash price. The prices vary, and reports can be seen here. The cash prices become available at 60 days prior to departure and may fluctuate in the timeframe prior to departure.

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (or operated by Norra or Iberia or Widerψe for Finnair (wetlease))
  • ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • you do not need to be a AY+ member

Cost:
Process:
  • Check the app or the upgrade tool for cash prices (earliest 60 days prior to departure)
  • you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.

Perks:
  • Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Upgrades paid in cash at the airport

(Note that according to recent reports, check-in agents are in some cases only able to process last-minute points and voucher upgrades.)

Requirements:
  • upgrades may be available for purchase at check-in
  • flight operated by AY or Norra
  • ticketed booking in economy
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • most likely AY+ & partner award flights in economy are eligible, too, though this is unconfirmed
  • the marketing carrier does not matter, so this is the only upgrade where codeshares are eligible

Cost:
  • varies, expect to pay some hundreds of euros for long haul one way

Process:
  • the upgrade will be processed and paid for at the check-in desk of the airport of departure
  • most likely the above means the airport of departure of that particular flight, so to upgrade HEL-BKK on a CPH-HEL-BKK itinerary, you would need to contact (transfer) check-in at HEL
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. The odds of being bumped back into Y are close to 0 as AY will not offer these upgrades if J is overbooked

Perks:
  • Only in-flight perks apply
  • Lounge access, priority security, additional checked in baggage is not extended to airport upgraders
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Complimentary operational upgrades
  • usually just a new boarding pass & seat either at the gate, at check-in or even after you have boarded
  • few and far between
  • the decision whom to upgrade on a particular flight seems a bit random but is at least partially dependent on the price of your ticket, booking class and status
    • AY highest tier members (Lumos, Plats, Golds) are prioritised with the travelling party size affecting upgrade priority (i.e. if only one seat is available in J, the party will not be split)
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
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The Big UPGRADE Thread – all you need to know about AY upgrades

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Old Feb 16, 2019, 1:15 am
  #511  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat (OWE), SK EBG (*A Gold), KQ Plat (STE+), Accor Plat
Posts: 3,157
I think it was 450 000 points but the tracking period was three years back then (and did the tracking period reset if you hit it?). So the whole structure of the qualification was different.
lkrt is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 1:16 am
  #512  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Plat (OWE)
Posts: 493
Originally Posted by OH-LGG
Platinum is too easy to get and now too many Platinums and Platinum tier is descending to Gold level.

And then AY Gold card is like green S-bonus card and Golds are on same waitlists with vouchers and points waiting for upgrades.

AY should set Plat level to 250.000 tier points or 100 AY flights.
And why not set the limit for Platinums to 2 million points?

The issue here is not the number of each individual tier members but the availability of upgrades.
Zero availability for practically all longhaul legs 11 months ahead is hurting me personally a lot. I travel business for work and have not flown longhaul economy for ages and this lack of upgrade seats or late release of them will make planning my personal travel more difficult and I have actually switched some of my loalty to other OW carriers with paid J where I could have used part of my trip on AY.

AY has changed the strategy with upgrade space availability and prefer to sell airport upgades, on-board upgrades and whatever at horrible price levels on the expense of tier loyalty.
Opening upgrade space well in advance would allow customers to drain their voucher balance more evenly and well ahead. More options would distribute the demand more evenly.
AY should open 2-4 seats on longhauls well ahead and only then open up a waitlist for Plats (+Golds) and rest of the clientele.
Seeing a zero availability woud be an indication that most of the upgrades have been used already. All this would apparently mean change of strategy and AY's already inferior IT systems (with a cost).

I do not see a glorious future for AY tier member longhaul upgrades, sadly.
esledo likes this.
ff_flyer is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 1:44 am
  #513  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: AY Plat
Posts: 127
Design it for me

Play+Gold flying long haul. Outbound upgrades confirmed months ago, inbound Gold still waitlisted, every fifth J seat unsold and T-16.

If return is not confirmed I would say Finnair policy is an anticlimax. Well it is already. Pretty decent tier combo and they insist not letting us use our hard earned loyalty points for a “perfect trip” but seem to be willing to inject bad will compared to the good will which could gave been generated if someone at CS had a look at the big picture from our side, one upgrade will be the deciding factor to set the note for the whole trip.

I would be happier even if we could have a) both confirmed, b) Gold still waitlisted but if not confirmed we would both be in Y. If let’s say a Plat or a Gold in front in the waitlist took the last seat I could give up my J and let the next one in waitlist upgrade and both of us would be in Y. Not possible.

Bad will will be worse if it would turn out that blind bidding would let a non-loyal first timer flying AY crash in next to me in J. A triad of no availability, no confirmation and one sided loyalty.

So glad investors seem happy with the just announced revenue report.
Benzin is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 1:50 am
  #514  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,055
Originally Posted by lkrt
I think it was 450 000 points but the tracking period was three years back then (and did the tracking period reset if you hit it?). So the whole structure of the qualification was different.
Tracking period was 24 months and limit was 300.000 tier points.
OH-LGG is online now  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 2:10 am
  #515  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,055
Originally Posted by ff_flyer
And why not set the limit for Platinums to 2 million points?

The issue here is not the number of each individual tier members but the availability of upgrades.
In the world ancillary sales You think airlines are adding free upgrades? No. They are adding upgrades for sale and free upgrades few left for too many Plats/Golds.

So they must change upgrade policy to YBHKMP or drop amount of tier members. I dont see Platinum as a top tier level if one DUS flight has around 10 Platinums sitting in Y and more in C. It sounds like SIlver status.
Or on OUL flight first 8 rows are Platinums only.
OH-LGG is online now  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 2:53 am
  #516  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Plat (OWE)
Posts: 493
Originally Posted by OH-LGG
In the world ancillary sales You think airlines are adding free upgrades? No. They are adding upgrades for sale and free upgrades few left for too many Plats/Golds.
Exactly what I was trying to say in my post. Sales before loyalty and this has apparently changed the strategy of tier upgrade availibility but opening up F bucket early would solve many uncertainty issues.

Not fully familiar with eq. BAEC but as AFAIK they always open 2 Avios seats for EVERY flight on ALL classes ~1 year ahead. Someone more knowledgeable will certainly correct me if I am wrong, additionally they have a voucher mechanism to force open an award seat for tier members.
And I am not even trying to say it is a better system or not, only that there are alternative approaches to awards and AY waitlisted approach will not suit me. To be able to waitlist I need to first book and then waitlist and this hit-or-miss strategy is a big no-go for me. I don't care SH upgrades that much but refuse to travel AY longhaul Y at all costs.

Premium Ecomomy concept starting 2021 will most likely make things even worse and more compilcated. Wanna bet on that?
esledo likes this.
ff_flyer is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 3:19 am
  #517  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: HEL
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 517
Originally Posted by OH-LGG
AY should set Plat level to 250.000 tier points or 100 AY flights.
I suppose this is a troll as everyone in their right minds must understand that those numbers are out of this world.
esledo is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 3:26 am
  #518  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat Lumo
Posts: 1,519
Originally Posted by esledo
I suppose this is a troll as everyone in their right minds must understand that those numbers are out of this world.
I don't think those numbers are unreasonable. A lot of flying and spending, yes, but isn't that the whole point of the game? Airlines are businesses after all and not just for our amusement.
cistavoda is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 3:53 am
  #519  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,055
Current system is out of this world. Platinum is introduced like top tier but Plat members not getting upgrades, waitlisted for months and getting missed upgrades. No, no, no!

Something must be changed. Plat Levels and number of top tiers or then quaranteed upgrades only for highest booking classes which would be quite fair play for everyone.
OH-LGG is online now  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 4:05 am
  #520  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat Lumo, SK Gold
Posts: 954
Originally Posted by cistavoda
Airlines are businesses after all and not just for our amusement.
And AY must think they get the most out of their FF program with the current levels. The people complaining here think AY+ doesn't amuse them well enough.

I agree that it's not that difficult to reach Plat. OTOH, the amount of Plats doesn't seem to be a problem. The upgrade space issue is slightly different from the amount of elites, because many flights start with no upgrade availability at all (so the lack of upgrade space is not because of hoardes of elites using their vouchers) and it seems that elites can still clear their upgrades pretty well through the waitlist.

Regarding upgrades, I think the following changes would help:
  • have a few upgrades available for every flight, even for Basics
  • have some more published upgrades available only for higher tiers (e.g. 1 for Lumo, 1 for Plat, 1 for Gold, and more if the flight is expected to have only a small amount of paid J customers)
  • do not leave J seats empty if there are waitlisted upgrades
Steve_Hun, Ukki and Clydez like this.
r2d2 is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 4:28 am
  #521  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum (OWE), SK G(*G), BW Diamond
Posts: 810
Still, looking at averages, I think current AY scheme on tier spend is quite aligned with other OW peers. Raising Emerald threshold much would likely decrease AY loyalty, same applies for those people flying between current plat/gold level.

And do not forget residual loyalty, a salaryman churning ARN for work first brings easily a revenue along 7000e/a to AY for platinum and because of that, also chooses AY for a family trip to Pattaya once per year, adding up easily 3ke that would otherwise be spent on QR or *A.
Post Scriptum is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 4:45 am
  #522  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Helsinki
Programs: AY Platinum, IHG Gold, Diners
Posts: 1,276
Just an idea: What about introducing ”any seat” awards for higher tiers? So let’s say for double points/vouchers you get a confirmed upgrade as long as there is a seat available?
niksal is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 4:52 am
  #523  
Moderator, Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
Originally Posted by OH-LGG
Platinum is too easy to get and now too many Platinums and Platinum tier is descending to Gold level.

....
Number of carried passengers increased by 35% in the last 5 years - but number of platinums should always stay the same?
intuition is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 4:56 am
  #524  
Moderator, Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
Originally Posted by Jainzar
It used to be 92 segments before the last major program change. So it seems like they wanted to enlarge the Platinum rank.
Actually, that would only hold true if the member body is flying the same patterns from year to year.

Perhaps they analysed before the change and found out that the number of customers who fly a high number of segments had gone down. So the change could just as easily have been an adaption to new travel patterns.
intuition is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 4:58 am
  #525  
Moderator, Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
Originally Posted by lkrt
I think it was 450 000 points but the tracking period was three years back then (and did the tracking period reset if you hit it?). So the whole structure of the qualification was different.
Wasn't it 300k and a tracking period of 2 years, in ≈2008?

Last edited by intuition; Feb 16, 2019 at 5:04 am
intuition is offline  


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