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The Big UPGRADE Thread – all you need to know about AY upgrades

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Old May 16, 2017, 1:37 pm
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Last edit by: lkrt
General
Upgrade space is capacity controlled, separately from revenue space in J cabin. The number of seats released to the different upgrade types are driven by a number of factors, but never by the "there are unsold seats in J cabin, let's fill them" policy some other airlines employ. Same applies with upgrades to Premium Economy.

Upgrades now book into fare bucket U, which is also used for business class awards. Note that availability tools such as Expertflyer etc. may or may not show correct U availability as AY tends to offer additional U availability to Plats and Lumos, and this hidden availability is not shown by non-AY affiliated availability tools. Premium Economy upgrade availability is in bucket F, with the above disclaimers applying similarly.

You can upgrade and review the available upgrade options at https://www.finnair.com/en/manage/upgrade.

The searches below very often show zero availability. Very few directly confirmable seats are released in particularly longhaul J. Instead upgrades must go on waitlist, from where a robot processes upgrades from an unknown set of parameters. A waitlisted upgrade can clear in minutes or never, and there is no way to know. Waitlisted upgrades are checked at T-59, 21, 10, 5 days, and at T-37 hours.

Final check most often actually takes place at approximately ~T-38 hours and you will be (most often) notified by email. In case you are denied an upgrade at this point and there is still revenue availability in J, you can contact CS which may be able to upgrade you on the spot or contact "another department" for confirmation. Furthermore, you may contact check-in desk at least in HEL, which may be able to process your upgrade.

You can check for the upgrades upon booking on the Finnair website. Each flight has a separate tab for "Upgrades", showing upgrade availability for PE and J if any exists, otherwise you will be waitlisted. Additionally, you may check your upgrade options for an already-booked flight here. EF gives you an idea of upgrade availability in the U bucket.


Upgrade-types
1. Upgrades with points
2. Upgrades with vouchers
3. Cash upgrades
5. Cash upgrades at airport
6. Complimentary upgrades

Upgrades with AY+ points

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair as wetlease)
  • ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • award flights and points+money combos are ineligible (booking class X)
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)
Cost:
  • Northern Europe (ARN, BGO, CPH, GOT, KEF, KRK, OSL, WAW, WRO) 10,000 points one way
  • Rest of Europe, TLV 15,000 points one way
  • long haul (including DXB, DOH) 60,000 points one way
    • Previously, shorthaul connections were upgraded at the same cost but this has been discontinued as of 15JUN23. If you wish to upgrade a shorthaul feeder flight, a separate points charge will apply.
  • there have been some occasional promotions especially for short haul upgrades (winter and summer campaigns)
Process:
  • When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
  • once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
  • you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
  • If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
    • your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
    • If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
    • NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
  • if you waitlist, your points will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your points will be returned to you but you will lose any points that have expired during the waiting time
  • your points need to be valid at time of processing the request but they do not need to be valid on the day of the flight
  • When confirmed, you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U (or F for Premium Economy) but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
  • as an unpublished perk, you may choose to change your upgrade from a points one to a voucher one by calling AY; your points will be returned to you save for any points that may have expired
  • If you change your mind about the upgrade you may conctact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have points returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or potentially, original booking class) to allow this, and your points expiry date must not have passed.

Perks:
  • Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Upgrades with vouchers
Vouchers are given to Finnair+ members upon advancing to and retaining the platinum and gold tiers. You can see number of vouchers, their type and expiry in your Finnair+ account.

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair as wetlease)
  • ticketed booking in economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • award flights booked via AY+ are also eligible (booking class X)
  • most likely, points+money combos are eligible, too, since they book into X, but we have no verification of this
  • award flights booked via parners (eg. Avios, AAdvantage etc) are not eligible
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)

Cost:
  • Northern Europe one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
  • Rest of Europe, TLV one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
  • longhaul (including DXB, DOH) one "Longhaul" voucher for a one-way flight
  • LH voucher does not include upgrade for connecting shorthaul (like it does with points upgrades), SH flight requires a separate voucher/points upgrade
  • you may exchange four European vouchers for one "Longhaul" voucher or vice versa by calling AY

Process:
  • When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
  • once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
  • you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
  • If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
    • your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
    • If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
    • NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
  • if you waitlist, your voucher will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your voucher will be returned to you but you will lose any vouchers that have expired during the waiting time
  • you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
  • If you change your mind about the upgrade you can contact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have voucher returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or original booking class) to allow this, and your voucher expiry date must not have passed.

Perks:
  • all usual J perks like priority check-in, one additional piece of baggage (23kg), priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Cash upgrades, offered on website / app
On the app as well as on the upgrade tool you can review if an upgrade is offered at a cash price. The prices vary, and reports can be seen here. The cash prices become available at 60 days prior to departure and may fluctuate in the timeframe prior to departure.

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (or operated by Norra or Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair (wetlease))
  • ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • you do not need to be a AY+ member

Cost:
Process:
  • Check the app or the upgrade tool for cash prices (earliest 60 days prior to departure)
  • you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.

Perks:
  • Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Upgrades paid in cash at the airport

(Note that according to recent reports, check-in agents are in some cases only able to process last-minute points and voucher upgrades.)

Requirements:
  • upgrades may be available for purchase at check-in
  • flight operated by AY or Norra
  • ticketed booking in economy
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • most likely AY+ & partner award flights in economy are eligible, too, though this is unconfirmed
  • the marketing carrier does not matter, so this is the only upgrade where codeshares are eligible

Cost:
  • varies, expect to pay some hundreds of euros for long haul one way

Process:
  • the upgrade will be processed and paid for at the check-in desk of the airport of departure
  • most likely the above means the airport of departure of that particular flight, so to upgrade HEL-BKK on a CPH-HEL-BKK itinerary, you would need to contact (transfer) check-in at HEL
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. The odds of being bumped back into Y are close to 0 as AY will not offer these upgrades if J is overbooked

Perks:
  • Only in-flight perks apply
  • Lounge access, priority security, additional checked in baggage is not extended to airport upgraders
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Complimentary operational upgrades
  • usually just a new boarding pass & seat either at the gate, at check-in or even after you have boarded
  • few and far between
  • the decision whom to upgrade on a particular flight seems a bit random but is at least partially dependent on the price of your ticket, booking class and status
    • AY highest tier members (Lumos, Plats, Golds) are prioritised with the travelling party size affecting upgrade priority (i.e. if only one seat is available in J, the party will not be split)
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
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The Big UPGRADE Thread – all you need to know about AY upgrades

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Old Feb 16, 2019, 5:19 am
  #526  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: C2
Posts: 651
Would be interesting to know the fail-% of waitlisted upgrades for Plats and lumos. It is certainly not 0%, but in this forums it sometimes sounds like close to 100%. I'm only low Gold and can't complain. I have four waitlists upcoming during next months, I'll report back success ratio.

CS lost their ability to grant upgrades and awards >1 year ago. After what I heard it was due to they were too generous and went on collision course with revenue. Heard of some examples were AY could have sold a significant number of J-seats IF CS hadn't already handed them out.
We shall also remember CS staff had to deal with that type of guys that was described in other thread lately. Calling in and demanding awards and upgrades for friends+family every peak season. CS had notoriously difficult to say NO to "Big shots" demanding this and that. So in some extent it was a relief for CS to get their hands tied.
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Old Feb 16, 2019, 5:21 am
  #527  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat (OWE), SK EBG (*A Gold), KQ Plat (STE+), Accor Plat
Posts: 3,157
Originally Posted by intuition
Wasn't it 300k and a tracking period of 2 years, in ≈2008?
Apparently it was as LGG noted above. Sorry for my poor memory. Still, the points threshold was similar to what it is now.
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Old Feb 16, 2019, 5:32 am
  #528  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: try to stay home
Programs: AY, M&M, BAEC ...and don t care of status anymore
Posts: 2,042
Originally Posted by intuition
Number of carried passengers increased by 35% in the last 5 years - but number of platinums should always stay the same?
But not only the number of passengers increased, also the capacity increased as far as I understand. But I agree the number of Plats will be higher today. Specially since AB went bankrupt, and it don t need much to ruin a working system. Lets see maybe it´s time to say Good Bye and concentrate on the "Deal of the day" instead of staying loyal.

Airlines are not so keen on loyal customers anymore, they need the volumes and they know how to lure them.
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Old Feb 16, 2019, 5:53 am
  #529  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,056
Originally Posted by intuition
Wasn't it 300k and a tracking period of 2 years, in ≈2008?
Those 2000's Old rules can be found here by Harri:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/6367731-post2.html

OUL Plats could be waived out by this old rule:
93* return oneworld international scheduled flights) during your 24 month tracking period. The Finnair Plus Platinum tier is equivalent to the oneworld Emerald tier.

*) Excluding flights within Finland.
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Old Feb 16, 2019, 5:53 am
  #530  
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Join Date: May 2011
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I'm slightly surprised at the turn of events here.

A few weeks ago everyone was so happy with the new system because "waitlist always clears for platinums" and also said the new system "protects upgrades for us, so plebs don't take them".

Now suddenly upgrades does not clear for platinums and the reason is determined to be too many platinums? So now platinum tier must be raised to lumo level?!

Finnair meddled with the supply of upgrades. It is as easy as that.

We don't know if they lowered the number of F seats in total, but they certainly changed when and how F seats are allocated. That is the issue and it has very little to do with number of plats.



Originally Posted by ff_flyer
And why not set the limit for Platinums to 2 million points?

The issue here is not the number of each individual tier members but the availability of upgrades.
Zero availability for practically all longhaul legs 11 months ahead is hurting me personally a lot.
...
AY has changed the strategy with upgrade space availability and prefer to sell airport upgades, on-board upgrades and whatever at horrible price levels on the expense of tier loyalty.
Opening upgrade space well in advance would allow customers to drain their voucher balance more evenly and well ahead. More options would distribute the demand more evenly.
AY should open 2-4 seats on longhauls well ahead and only then open up a waitlist for Plats (+Golds) and rest of the clientele.
Seeing a zero availability woud be an indication that most of the upgrades have been used already. All this would apparently mean change of strategy and AY's already inferior IT systems (with a cost).

I do not see a glorious future for AY tier member longhaul upgrades, sadly.
This.
Indeed.

Originally Posted by OH-LGG
In the world ancillary sales You think airlines are adding free upgrades? No. They are adding upgrades for sale and free upgrades few left for too many Plats/Golds.

So they must change upgrade policy to YBHKMP or drop amount of tier members. I dont see Platinum as a top tier level if one DUS flight has around 10 Platinums sitting in Y and more in C. It sounds like SIlver status.
Or on OUL flight first 8 rows are Platinums only.
Isn't upgrade space seats that actually will be empty despite all efforts to sell them? They are not added for free, it is revenue managements best guess that X seats will be empty at time of departure and therefore they safely can assign them to F bucket for the frequent flyer program to use.

Now they don't assign almost any seats to F and changing platinum qualification to a gazillion points or requiring C,D,I,J won't change that. If there is no F released, it doesn't matter how few people there is on waitlist.

I agree totally on the OUL/ARN problem, but that is an entirely different thing, where AY+ is leaning towards frequent segmenters. Something a lot of people on here have praised.



Originally Posted by ff_flyer
Exactly what I was trying to say in my post. Sales before loyalty and this has apparently changed the strategy of tier upgrade availibility but opening up F bucket early would solve many uncertainty issues.

Not fully familiar with eq. BAEC but as AFAIK they always open 2 Avios seats for EVERY flight on ALL classes ~1 year ahead. Someone more knowledgeable will certainly correct me if I am wrong, additionally they have a voucher mechanism to force open an award seat for tier members.
And I am not even trying to say it is a better system or not, only that there are alternative approaches to awards and AY waitlisted approach will not suit me. To be able to waitlist I need to first book and then waitlist and this hit-or-miss strategy is a big no-go for me. I don't care SH upgrades that much but refuse to travel AY longhaul Y at all costs.

Premium Ecomomy concept starting 2021 will most likely make things even worse and more compilcated. Wanna bet on that?
Originally Posted by r2d2
And AY must think they get the most out of their FF program with the current levels. The people complaining here think AY+ doesn't amuse them well enough.

I agree that it's not that difficult to reach Plat. OTOH, the amount of Plats doesn't seem to be a problem. The upgrade space issue is slightly different from the amount of elites, because many flights start with no upgrade availability at all (so the lack of upgrade space is not because of hoardes of elites using their vouchers) and it seems that elites can still clear their upgrades pretty well through the waitlist.

Regarding upgrades, I think the following changes would help:
  • have a few upgrades available for every flight, even for Basics
  • have some more published upgrades available only for higher tiers (e.g. 1 for Lumo, 1 for Plat, 1 for Gold, and more if the flight is expected to have only a small amount of paid J customers)
  • do not leave J seats empty if there are waitlisted upgrades
Indeed.
Publish, far in advance, some F for all flights.
Publish, far in advance, some seats to a new bucket only accessible to higher tier members.
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Old Feb 16, 2019, 5:56 am
  #531  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+Plat, ALL Plat, Scandic L2
Posts: 3,620
Wait-listed upgrades on HEL-CDG-HEL in the evening, cleared the next morning. With only 10 days advance.

Certainly, I would rather have been able to put myself on the wait-list than have to contact the busy customer service. And I was also rather disapointed not to receive a last minute SMS on flights with free business space. But I don't really get what people here are whining about upgrades being so difficult.

In the closing 12 months period, I have cleared 6 SH, 2 LH upgrades, plus had 2 SH and 2 LH op-ups (still hoping to clear the last 2 SH ones). I would rather the current crowded system over limiting upgrades to MTPKHBY. Much much rather. And it does not help that there are no effective ways to book into M or above to begin with.

Likewise, I don't see the point in increasing the Platinum threshold. I think it is hard enough to get it in Economy (and it got extra harder with the end of 100% Y to USA). It might be easy to get for paid long-haul business fliers, but those people don't compete for the upgrade availability.

If you want to be sure to fly J, buy J.
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Old Feb 16, 2019, 6:02 am
  #532  
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Join Date: May 2011
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Originally Posted by Ed Size
But not only the number of passengers increased, also the capacity increased as far as I understand. But I agree the number of Plats will be higher today. Specially since AB went bankrupt, and it don t need much to ruin a working system. Lets see maybe it´s time to say Good Bye and concentrate on the "Deal of the day" instead of staying loyal.

Airlines are not so keen on loyal customers anymore, they need the volumes and they know how to lure them.
Yup, with increasing capacity, the FF redemption system can "tolerate" more tier members as there are more flights to redeem on.

Perhaps matching AB topflyer was too "successful" and made a big dent in the system. 10 plats on a DUS flight indicates it could be the case.
If plat tier instantly increased with say 1000 without any new customers or capacity, it can certainly break the system.


And yes, for a J revenue flyer, loyalty programs certainly is pretty pointless. Best price/quality certainly is my melody these days.
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Old Feb 16, 2019, 6:12 am
  #533  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: try to stay home
Programs: AY, M&M, BAEC ...and don t care of status anymore
Posts: 2,042
Originally Posted by intuition
And yes, for a J revenue flyer, loyalty programs certainly is pretty pointless. Best price/quality certainly is my melody these days.
Thats actually where my problem start if I can use the vouchers and points for upgrades on AY there is no better ratio on the market, in the moment the points and voucher are worthless the competition is there. The next few month will show (me) how to continue in 2020.
Ed Size is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 6:25 am
  #534  
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Location: HEL
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Posts: 8,749
Originally Posted by intuition
A few weeks ago everyone was so happy with the new system because "waitlist always clears for platinums" and also said the new system "protects upgrades for us, so plebs don't take them".
I have the feeling that I am one of the few that represent this stand here. I've apparently managed to get my message through rather well if your impression is that everyone thinks (or thought) like this... But to be honest, I guess I've been almost alone all the time. I still think the current way serves Platinums best, though.
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Old Feb 16, 2019, 6:26 am
  #535  
Moderator, Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
Originally Posted by Ed Size
Thats actually where my problem start if I can use the vouchers and points for upgrades on AY there is no better ratio on the market, in the moment the points and voucher are worthless the competition is there. The next few month will show (me) how to continue in 2020.

Oh, agreed. If upgrade works, we get one discounted longhaul every year which is good stuff.

(If they don't work, they are just sitting in our accounts laughing at us
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Old Feb 16, 2019, 6:28 am
  #536  
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,749
Originally Posted by Courmisch
But I don't really get what people here are whining about upgrades being so difficult.
Me neither. Maybe I've been lucky, but as Plat, all my upgrade requests cleared. I didn't even bother to look for F inventory when booking, I booked what suited me best, checked the app and if there was no possibility to upgrade, called CS to waitlist. No problems.

Now, as Gold, I haven't made any new requests and probably won't make before I'm Plat again, so I won't have first-hand experience.
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Old Feb 16, 2019, 6:55 am
  #537  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: try to stay home
Programs: AY, M&M, BAEC ...and don t care of status anymore
Posts: 2,042
Originally Posted by intuition
Oh, agreed. If upgrade works, we get one discounted longhaul every year which is good stuff.
I always got two discounted longhauls in J, one with vouchers one with points, and the paid J tickets are often campaign tickets. So that package makes AY a good offer.
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Ed Size is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 8:20 am
  #538  
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: HEL
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Posts: 5,294
Originally Posted by ffay005
I have the feeling that I am one of the few that represent this stand here. I've apparently managed to get my message through rather well if your impression is that everyone thinks (or thought) like this... But to be honest, I guess I've been almost alone all the time. I still think the current way serves Platinums best, though.
Every single one of my upgrade requests as Plat has cleared (including family members on the same reservation). In the coming weeks I will have e.g. HEL-LHR-HEL and HEL-MIA/JFK-HEL. All those have been upgraded already, maximum waiting time three days. FWIW, in my routes there usually seem to be 1-3 Plats/OWEs (that can I see, and I am usually curious about this kind of stuff). So yeah, I am happy.
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Old Feb 16, 2019, 9:24 am
  #539  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+Plat
Posts: 862
Originally Posted by lento
Looks like my wait-list for tomorrow's flight to DEL mignt not clear as very few seats can be seen empty.
​​​​
Happy end result for a lowly Gold at the check in desk just now.
Overheard that there were 4 available seats and 2 on wait-list.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 1:23 am
  #540  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Programs: AY+ Plat, SAS Gold (butt in seat)
Posts: 350
Just chatted with AY support: Indeed the waitlist seems to be a Plat/Lumo-Feature, Gold is not any more "walked" through.
Would be interesting whether plat/lumo are getting instant upgrades or T minus X?
In my case, AY1415 on 24.2. shows 4 seats taken, 4 seats free. Support says, the "other" department waits for Plats to upgrade.

Gold seems to get the remaining slots via CI only?
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