Jan 19, 2017, 10:33 am
Last edit by: ffay005
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When seeking claims from AY, use this form: https://www.finnair.com/int/gb/infor...vices/feedbackAY will not accept claims by email, phone or in person.
Past decisions of the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) relating to Regulation 261/2004 (by judgment date in chronological order):
European Commission's Interpretative Guidelines (note that this policy document is persuasive, but only the CJEU's interpretation of Regulation 261/2004 is authoritative and binding): http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...XC0615%2801%29. National courts do not have to follow the European Commission's Interpretative Guidelines (but are obliged to follow the CJEU's case-law). For example, although the European Commission takes the view that 'missed connecting flights due to significant delays at security checks or passengers failing to respect the boarding time of their flight at their airport of transfer do not give entitlement to compensation' (para 4.4.7 of the Interpretative Guidelines), the Edinburgh Sheriff Court took a different view in Caldwell v easyJet. Sheriff T Welsh QC held that 'the facts proved can properly be characterised as denied boarding because of the operational inadequacies of Easyjet ground staff’s management of the Easyjet queues on 14 September 2014 and their failure to facilitate passage through security check, customs and passport control when asked, in circumstances, where it was obvious the passengers were in danger of missing their flight'.
When AY+ Flight Reason AY Offered AY explanation Won/Lost, How, Time
Summer13 no status (HKG-)HEL-LHR Prior to landing, LHR was closed as the fire services there were unavailable, so the flight was diverted and landed in LTN, where passengers were offloaded. However, the plane then flew from LTN to LHR with luggage in the hold, so passengers had to make their own way to LHR to retrieve their luggage (as AY provided no ground transport arrangements), eventually arriving at LHR and reclaiming baggage over 6 hours later than the scheduled arrival time. Requested 600€ plus transport and phone call costs incurred, but AY only agreed to reimburse transport and phone call costs AY claimed that 'the delay of this flight happened in extraordinary circumstances' Filed claim through ESCP in the County Court in England. AY contested the claim. The Court ruled against AY. In its judgment, the Court cited CJEU's decision in Eglitis and Wallentin-Hermann and rejected AY's defence as the flight diversion only caused a small initial delay. AY failed to discharge its burden of proof that it took all reasonable measures, as evidenced by proper contingency plans and steps to assist passengers at LTN. The delay in arrival at LHR was significantly lengthened by this factor. AY eventually paid the damages and costs awarded by the Court.
Summer13 no status (LHR-)HEL-HKG Technical fault Requested 600€ plus phone call costs incurred, but AY only agreed to reimburse phone call costs AY initially claimed that the technical fault was not foreseeable Filed claim through ESCP in the County Court in England. AY conceded the claim and eventually paid 600€ + phone call costs + court costs.
Fall15 AYG HEL-LHR-US HEL-LHR late, miss connect 200€ voucher, reroute 3,5 hours requested 600€, re-offered 400€ due to <4 hours -> accepted.
Nov15 AYS HEL-AMS Equip swap -> rerouting 3+ hours 400€ cash (as per EC261) or 550€ voucher offered in 2 days accepted
Jan16 AYP KUO-HEL ATR crew shortage, cancelled 50€ voucher Claimed EU 261 + taxi + hotel. NO -> paid taxi+hotel -> escalated to KRIL -> NoRRA offered 250€ voucher. Accepted
Jan16 AYS WAW-HEL "extraordinary crew shortage" 50€ voucher raised to "kuluttajaoikeusneuvoja". They state that crew shortage can usually not be declared an extraordinary -> escalated to KRIL -> AY offered 150€ -> declined -> AY offers 200€ voucher -> Accepted. 8 months to resolve the matter!
Jan16 AA Platinum = OWS BKK-HEL delay, no equip combined 300€ voucher (for 2 pers) extraordinary manufacturing fault of A350 declined offer -> escalated to KRIL -> AY offered 680€ voucher / 400 cash (for 2 pers) -> declined -> KRIL decision Feb18 = AY should compensate 300€ / pax
Q1/16 ?? JFK-HEL diverted back to JFK ?? technical fail, new equip escalated to KRIL -> 600€ offered, accepted
Feb16 ?? (LHR-)HEL-PEK cancelled, re-routed, arrived at PEK with 20 hr delay and, because of this, missed seeing dying grandfather by a few hours ?? 'extraordinary circumstances' due to pilot sickness, AY refused compensation -> filed small claim in England and won (see Guardian article)
Feb16 ?? HEL-PEK 6h delay 150€ voucher manufacture fail of A350 ??
Q1/16 AYG LHR-HEL A350 broke up 50€ voucher ??
?? OWE HKG-HEL 6h delay (A350) 600€*2pers ?? 2 weeks wait only for compensation
?? ?? BKK-HEL 13h delay 600€ cash / 800€ voucher ?? Just 2 days to get compensation, accepted 800 voucher
Q1/16 ?? BKK-HEL misconnect, 6h delay 400/€550€ misconnect raised the discance to apply 600 -> offered 600€ cash / 800 voucher
Mar16 AYP PVG-HEL cancel, reroute, 12h delay 600/800€ cancel&reroute 800€ voucher accepted
?? ?? ?? cancelled, long delay 600/800 technical fault accepted
Mar16 ?? HEL-HKG 8h delay 200€ voucher extraordinary fail A350 escalated to KRIL -> no info
Nov16 OWE (LHR-)HEL-TLL overnight delay nothing NoRRA pilot shortage Claim for EUR 400 filed in the England and Wales small claims track (not ESCP), AY admitted the whole of the claim a few days before the hearing (details)
???16 AYS PEK-HEL cancelled 100/200€ sick pilot, no overtime declined -> escalated to KRIL. No info yet.
Feb17 OWE BKK-HEL-LHR 2h delay in BKK, misconnect in HEL 600€ cash / 800€ voucher ?? Submitted compensation request, AY responded around one week later, accepted 800€ voucher (details)
Feb 2017 AYP KUO-HEL 06:00 cancelled ATR shortage HEL-LHR was missed, at LHR 6 h late €400 in cash or €550 AY voucher. Returning HEL-KUO 23:40 cancelled ATR shortage rerouted to JOE, bus to KUO, at KUO 2h 40min late €250 in cash or €350 AY voucher.
Apr 2017 OWE TLL-HEL-LHR AY118 delayed from TLL-HEL "crew rest" then later, "Try Norra, not us" €400 claimed. Rejected. MCOL in UK. Disputed by AY. County Court civil case, Oxford (10/11/17) Judgement : AY was the operating carrier under EC2111/2005, compensation and costs and expenses awarded.
Apr 2017 OWE TLL-HEL-LHR AY118 delayed from TLL-HEL "crew rest" then later, "Try Norra, not us", then "Delayed due to weather" €400 claimed. Rejected. 2 seperate agencies tried but gave up on the case. European Small Claims Procedure started at Den Haag sub-district court, AY didn't defend. Judgement (11/6/2019): compensation, costs and interest awarded.
Dec 2017 AY Gold AY HEL-KOK operated by Norra canceled due to crew shortage, delay due to reroute >3 hours EUR 250 claimed. Accepted by AY and an alternative of a EUR 350 voucher offered.
May 28 2017 AYP, AY 380 KUO-HEL was cancelled due to lack of planes (admitted by Finnair - Flightradar 24 gold is an invaluable tool for this sherlockholmesing: one KUO flight was cancelled in the previous evening as OH-LKM had broken in HAM and it should have taken care of the next morning KUO-HEL flight 7:30, OH-LKP arrived late from GVA 23:40 and took off to KUO well after midnight being there 01:33, OH-LKP should have flown KUO-HEL flight 6:15 but crew rest prevented this, OH-LKP flew KUO-HEL 7:30 flight instead). Missed LHR connection. Arrived at LHR 5 h 54 min later than planned. EUR 400 or voucher of EUR 600 was offered without any resent.
Dec 2018. HEL-LPA delayed 4 hours because routine maintenance took longer than expected. Pax AY Plat. Compensation paid within 24 hours (offered €400 cash or €550 voucher).
Some more cases from earlier history can be read HERE (unfortunately only in Finnish)
List of National Enforcement Bodies (NEBs) in EU/EEA Member States and Switzerland published by the European Commission (updated: April 2018): https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...ent_bodies.pdf
European Commission's guidelines with criteria for determining which NEB is competent for handling complaints (updated: April 2017): https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...procedures.pdf
If you decide to engage a claim agency/lawyer to pursue your claim, please first read the Information Notice published by the European Commission (updated: March 2017): http://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/...gencies_en.pdf
To file a court claim, the CJEU stated in Rehder (see above) the criteria for determining which Member State's court has jurisdiction. If you booked a package combining flight(s) and accommodation, Advocate General Sharpston stated in her Opinion in Flight Refund v Lufthansa (Case C‑94/14) at paras 9 and 59-60 that a consumer claiming compensation under Regulation 261/2004 can file a court claim in the jurisdiction where he/she habitually resides, as an alternative to filing a court claim in the jurisdiction of the airport of departure or arrival.
You can file a claim at a court with jurisdiction to rule on your case either through the national procedure or through the European Small Claims Procedure (ESCP). The ESCP is a primarily written procedure and is available where the claimant and defendant are domiciled in different EU Member States (with the exception of Denmark) for claims up to EUR 2,000 (increasing to EUR 5,000 with effect from 14 July 2017).
When seeking claims from AY, use this form: https://www.finnair.com/int/gb/infor...vices/feedbackAY will not accept claims by email, phone or in person.
Past decisions of the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) relating to Regulation 261/2004 (by judgment date in chronological order):
- Sturgeon v Condor (Case C-402/07): Passengers who reach their final destination at least 3 hours late because their flight was delayed are entitled to the amount of compensation laid down in Article 7 of the Regulation.
- Wallentin-Hermann v Alitalia (Case C-549/07): ‘Extraordinary circumstances’ (which release airlines from their obligation to compensate passengers) do not include aircraft technical problems (unless the problem stems from events which, by their nature or origin, are not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and are beyond its actual control). See also van der Lans v KLM below.
- Rehder v Air Baltic (Case C-204/08): Passengers can file a legal claim either in the jurisdiction of the place of departure or the jurisdiction of the place of arrival
- Rodríguez v Air France (Case C-83/10): The term ‘cancellation’ in the Regulation includes the situation where the aircraft took off but had to return to the departure airport and passengers were transferred to other flights.
- Eglītis v Latvijas Republikas Ekonomikas ministrija (Case C-294/10): At the stage of organising the flight, the airline is required to provide for a certain reserve time to allow it, if possible, to operate the flight in its entirety once the extraordinary circumstances have come to an end.
- Nelson v Lufthansa (Case C-581/10): The Court reaffirmed its previous decision (Sturgeon v Condor).
- Folkerts v Air France (Case C-11/11): Passengers on directly connecting flights who arrive at their final destination at least 3 hours late are entitled to compensation.
- McDonagh v Ryanair (Case C-12/11): Even where a flight delay/cancellation is caused by ‘extraordinary circumstances’, the airline continues to be under a duty to provide care (in the form of accommodation, meals, transfers between the airport/hotel, telephone calls)
- Finnair v Lassooy (Case C–22/11): The term ‘denied boarding’ in the Regulation covers cases where boarding is denied because of overbooking, as well as other reasons.
- Moré v KLM (Case C-139/11): The time limit for filing a legal claim is based on the rules governing limitation periods in the Member State where the claim is filed.
- Rodríguez Cachafeiro v Iberia (Case C 321/11): The term ‘denied boarding’ in the Regulation includes a situation where, in the context of a single contract of carriage (PNR) on immediately connecting flights and a single check-in, an airline denies boarding to some passengers because the first flight had been delayed and it mistakenly expected those passengers not to arrive in time to board the second flight.
- Germanwings v Henning (Case C 452/13): The concept of ‘arrival time’, which is used to determine the length of the flight delay, refers to the time at which at least one of the doors of the aircraft was opened, as long as, at that moment, passengers were actually permitted to leave the aircraft.
- van der Lans v KLM (Case C-257/14): ‘Extraordinary circumstances’ (which release airlines from their obligation to compensate passengers) do not include aircraft technical problems which occur unexpectedly, which are not attributable to poor maintenance and which are also not detected during routine maintenance checks.
- Mennens v Emirates (Case C 255/15): Where passengers are downgraded on a particular flight, the ‘price of the ticket’ refers to the price of that particular flight, but if this information is not indicated on the ticket, the price of that particular flight out of the total fare is calculated by working out the distance of that flight divided by the total distance of the flight itinerary on the ticket. Taxes and charges are not included in the reimbursement of the ticket price/fare, unless the tax/charge is dependent on the class of travel.
- Pešková v Travel Service (Case C‑315/15): A bird strike constitutes 'extraordinary circumstances'. However, even if a flight delay/cancellation is caused by an event constituting 'extraordinary circumstances', an airline is only released from its duty to pay compensation if it took all reasonable measures to avoid the delay/cancellation. To determine this, the court will consider what measures could actually be taken by the airline, directly or indirectly, without requiring it to make intolerable sacrifices. Further, even if all of these conditions are met, it is necessary to distinguish between the length of the delay caused by extraordinary circumstances (which could not have been avoided by all reasonable measures) and the length of the delay caused by other circumstances. For the purpose of calculating the length of the qualifying delay for compensation, the delay falling into the former category would be deducted from the total delay.
- Krijgsman v SLM (C‑302/16): Where a passenger has booked a flight through a travel agent, and that flight has been cancelled, but notification of the cancellation was not communicated to the passenger by the travel agent or airline at least 14 days prior to departure, the passenger is entitled to compensation.
- Bossen v Brussels Airlines (C‑559/16): On a flight itinerary involving connecting flights, the distance is calculated by using ‘great circle’ method from the origin to the final destination, regardless of the distance actually flown.
- Krüsemann v TUIfly (C‑195/17): The spontaneous absence of a significant number of flight crew staff (‘wildcat strikes’) does not constitute 'extraordinary circumstances'.
- Wegener v Royal Air Maroc (C‑537/17): The Court reaffirmed its previous decision (Folkerts v Air France).
- Wirth v Thomson Airways (C‑532/17): Where there is a 'wet lease' (with the lessor carrier providing an aircraft, including crew, to the lessee airline, but without the lessor bearing operational responsibility for the flight in question), the lessor carrier is not responsible under the Regulation.
- Harms v Vueling (C‑601/17): For the purpose of calculating the ticket price, the difference between the amount paid by the passenger and the amount received by the air carrier (corresponding to the commission collected by a person acting as an intermediary between those two parties) is included in the ticket price, unless that commission was set without the knowledge of the air carrier.
- CS v České aerolinie (C‑502/18): For a journey with 2 connecting flights (in a single reservation) departing from an EU member state and to a final destination outside the EU via an airport outside the EU, a passenger who is delayed by 3 hours or more in reaching the final destination because of a delay in the second flight which is operated as a codeshare flight by a non-EU carrier may bring an action for compensation against the EU air carrier that performed the first flight.
European Commission's Interpretative Guidelines (note that this policy document is persuasive, but only the CJEU's interpretation of Regulation 261/2004 is authoritative and binding): http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...XC0615%2801%29. National courts do not have to follow the European Commission's Interpretative Guidelines (but are obliged to follow the CJEU's case-law). For example, although the European Commission takes the view that 'missed connecting flights due to significant delays at security checks or passengers failing to respect the boarding time of their flight at their airport of transfer do not give entitlement to compensation' (para 4.4.7 of the Interpretative Guidelines), the Edinburgh Sheriff Court took a different view in Caldwell v easyJet. Sheriff T Welsh QC held that 'the facts proved can properly be characterised as denied boarding because of the operational inadequacies of Easyjet ground staff’s management of the Easyjet queues on 14 September 2014 and their failure to facilitate passage through security check, customs and passport control when asked, in circumstances, where it was obvious the passengers were in danger of missing their flight'.
When AY+ Flight Reason AY Offered AY explanation Won/Lost, How, Time
Summer13 no status (HKG-)HEL-LHR Prior to landing, LHR was closed as the fire services there were unavailable, so the flight was diverted and landed in LTN, where passengers were offloaded. However, the plane then flew from LTN to LHR with luggage in the hold, so passengers had to make their own way to LHR to retrieve their luggage (as AY provided no ground transport arrangements), eventually arriving at LHR and reclaiming baggage over 6 hours later than the scheduled arrival time. Requested 600€ plus transport and phone call costs incurred, but AY only agreed to reimburse transport and phone call costs AY claimed that 'the delay of this flight happened in extraordinary circumstances' Filed claim through ESCP in the County Court in England. AY contested the claim. The Court ruled against AY. In its judgment, the Court cited CJEU's decision in Eglitis and Wallentin-Hermann and rejected AY's defence as the flight diversion only caused a small initial delay. AY failed to discharge its burden of proof that it took all reasonable measures, as evidenced by proper contingency plans and steps to assist passengers at LTN. The delay in arrival at LHR was significantly lengthened by this factor. AY eventually paid the damages and costs awarded by the Court.
Summer13 no status (LHR-)HEL-HKG Technical fault Requested 600€ plus phone call costs incurred, but AY only agreed to reimburse phone call costs AY initially claimed that the technical fault was not foreseeable Filed claim through ESCP in the County Court in England. AY conceded the claim and eventually paid 600€ + phone call costs + court costs.
Fall15 AYG HEL-LHR-US HEL-LHR late, miss connect 200€ voucher, reroute 3,5 hours requested 600€, re-offered 400€ due to <4 hours -> accepted.
Nov15 AYS HEL-AMS Equip swap -> rerouting 3+ hours 400€ cash (as per EC261) or 550€ voucher offered in 2 days accepted
Jan16 AYP KUO-HEL ATR crew shortage, cancelled 50€ voucher Claimed EU 261 + taxi + hotel. NO -> paid taxi+hotel -> escalated to KRIL -> NoRRA offered 250€ voucher. Accepted
Jan16 AYS WAW-HEL "extraordinary crew shortage" 50€ voucher raised to "kuluttajaoikeusneuvoja". They state that crew shortage can usually not be declared an extraordinary -> escalated to KRIL -> AY offered 150€ -> declined -> AY offers 200€ voucher -> Accepted. 8 months to resolve the matter!
Jan16 AA Platinum = OWS BKK-HEL delay, no equip combined 300€ voucher (for 2 pers) extraordinary manufacturing fault of A350 declined offer -> escalated to KRIL -> AY offered 680€ voucher / 400 cash (for 2 pers) -> declined -> KRIL decision Feb18 = AY should compensate 300€ / pax
Q1/16 ?? JFK-HEL diverted back to JFK ?? technical fail, new equip escalated to KRIL -> 600€ offered, accepted
Feb16 ?? (LHR-)HEL-PEK cancelled, re-routed, arrived at PEK with 20 hr delay and, because of this, missed seeing dying grandfather by a few hours ?? 'extraordinary circumstances' due to pilot sickness, AY refused compensation -> filed small claim in England and won (see Guardian article)
Feb16 ?? HEL-PEK 6h delay 150€ voucher manufacture fail of A350 ??
Q1/16 AYG LHR-HEL A350 broke up 50€ voucher ??
?? OWE HKG-HEL 6h delay (A350) 600€*2pers ?? 2 weeks wait only for compensation
?? ?? BKK-HEL 13h delay 600€ cash / 800€ voucher ?? Just 2 days to get compensation, accepted 800 voucher
Q1/16 ?? BKK-HEL misconnect, 6h delay 400/€550€ misconnect raised the discance to apply 600 -> offered 600€ cash / 800 voucher
Mar16 AYP PVG-HEL cancel, reroute, 12h delay 600/800€ cancel&reroute 800€ voucher accepted
?? ?? ?? cancelled, long delay 600/800 technical fault accepted
Mar16 ?? HEL-HKG 8h delay 200€ voucher extraordinary fail A350 escalated to KRIL -> no info
Nov16 OWE (LHR-)HEL-TLL overnight delay nothing NoRRA pilot shortage Claim for EUR 400 filed in the England and Wales small claims track (not ESCP), AY admitted the whole of the claim a few days before the hearing (details)
???16 AYS PEK-HEL cancelled 100/200€ sick pilot, no overtime declined -> escalated to KRIL. No info yet.
Feb17 OWE BKK-HEL-LHR 2h delay in BKK, misconnect in HEL 600€ cash / 800€ voucher ?? Submitted compensation request, AY responded around one week later, accepted 800€ voucher (details)
Feb 2017 AYP KUO-HEL 06:00 cancelled ATR shortage HEL-LHR was missed, at LHR 6 h late €400 in cash or €550 AY voucher. Returning HEL-KUO 23:40 cancelled ATR shortage rerouted to JOE, bus to KUO, at KUO 2h 40min late €250 in cash or €350 AY voucher.
Apr 2017 OWE TLL-HEL-LHR AY118 delayed from TLL-HEL "crew rest" then later, "Try Norra, not us" €400 claimed. Rejected. MCOL in UK. Disputed by AY. County Court civil case, Oxford (10/11/17) Judgement : AY was the operating carrier under EC2111/2005, compensation and costs and expenses awarded.
Apr 2017 OWE TLL-HEL-LHR AY118 delayed from TLL-HEL "crew rest" then later, "Try Norra, not us", then "Delayed due to weather" €400 claimed. Rejected. 2 seperate agencies tried but gave up on the case. European Small Claims Procedure started at Den Haag sub-district court, AY didn't defend. Judgement (11/6/2019): compensation, costs and interest awarded.
Dec 2017 AY Gold AY HEL-KOK operated by Norra canceled due to crew shortage, delay due to reroute >3 hours EUR 250 claimed. Accepted by AY and an alternative of a EUR 350 voucher offered.
May 28 2017 AYP, AY 380 KUO-HEL was cancelled due to lack of planes (admitted by Finnair - Flightradar 24 gold is an invaluable tool for this sherlockholmesing: one KUO flight was cancelled in the previous evening as OH-LKM had broken in HAM and it should have taken care of the next morning KUO-HEL flight 7:30, OH-LKP arrived late from GVA 23:40 and took off to KUO well after midnight being there 01:33, OH-LKP should have flown KUO-HEL flight 6:15 but crew rest prevented this, OH-LKP flew KUO-HEL 7:30 flight instead). Missed LHR connection. Arrived at LHR 5 h 54 min later than planned. EUR 400 or voucher of EUR 600 was offered without any resent.
Dec 2018. HEL-LPA delayed 4 hours because routine maintenance took longer than expected. Pax AY Plat. Compensation paid within 24 hours (offered €400 cash or €550 voucher).
Some more cases from earlier history can be read HERE (unfortunately only in Finnish)
List of National Enforcement Bodies (NEBs) in EU/EEA Member States and Switzerland published by the European Commission (updated: April 2018): https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...ent_bodies.pdf
European Commission's guidelines with criteria for determining which NEB is competent for handling complaints (updated: April 2017): https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...procedures.pdf
If you decide to engage a claim agency/lawyer to pursue your claim, please first read the Information Notice published by the European Commission (updated: March 2017): http://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/...gencies_en.pdf
To file a court claim, the CJEU stated in Rehder (see above) the criteria for determining which Member State's court has jurisdiction. If you booked a package combining flight(s) and accommodation, Advocate General Sharpston stated in her Opinion in Flight Refund v Lufthansa (Case C‑94/14) at paras 9 and 59-60 that a consumer claiming compensation under Regulation 261/2004 can file a court claim in the jurisdiction where he/she habitually resides, as an alternative to filing a court claim in the jurisdiction of the airport of departure or arrival.
You can file a claim at a court with jurisdiction to rule on your case either through the national procedure or through the European Small Claims Procedure (ESCP). The ESCP is a primarily written procedure and is available where the claimant and defendant are domiciled in different EU Member States (with the exception of Denmark) for claims up to EUR 2,000 (increasing to EUR 5,000 with effect from 14 July 2017).
Finnair and EC 261 compensation
Oct 5, 2018, 4:47 am
#721
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Peterborough, UK
Programs: BA Silver; IHG Spire; Avis P+; Global Entry
Posts: 1,505
Oct 5, 2018, 8:50 am
#722
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Before i submit my care to MCOL in the UK as AY have not contacted me at all since opening the case and sending a letter before action 2 weeks ago. I wanted to check with you guys if this claim is valid.
I was booked on the AY1331, connecting onto the AA101 and then AA3940. (HEL-LHR-JFK-YUL).
I was due to land at 16:30, but due to a mechanical issue on the wheel the AY1331 flight was delayed causing us to miss out connection to JFK.
AY then rebooked us onto the BA95 (LHR-YUL) due to land at 19:50, however the flight landed at 2009 and doors didn't open until 2109, causing a delay of 4:39.
To me is seems to be a pretty open and shut case, and i dont understand why it has taken so long for a flight on the 6th August.
Seems fair for me to now open a claim in the court?
I was booked on the AY1331, connecting onto the AA101 and then AA3940. (HEL-LHR-JFK-YUL).
I was due to land at 16:30, but due to a mechanical issue on the wheel the AY1331 flight was delayed causing us to miss out connection to JFK.
AY then rebooked us onto the BA95 (LHR-YUL) due to land at 19:50, however the flight landed at 2009 and doors didn't open until 2109, causing a delay of 4:39.
To me is seems to be a pretty open and shut case, and i dont understand why it has taken so long for a flight on the 6th August.
Seems fair for me to now open a claim in the court?
I would make this a very simple claim, no more than 2-3 short declarative sentences which make only the relevant points above.
As to the question of whether you may avail sourself of the UK courts through MCOL, of course you may. You are a UK resident and the sole question is whether UK courts can obtain jurisdiction over AY which they can as AY operates into (and out of) the UK.
Hopefully, though, this won't require MCOL.
Oct 5, 2018, 8:54 am
#723
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,749
This should be an easy claim because AY caused the delay and it is an EU carrier and it was operating a service between two points within the EU. The sole question then is where the delay is measured and what the parameters are. Your final ticketed destination was YUL and at 3,500 km+, a delay of 4+ hours yields compensation of EUR 600,
I would make this a very simple claim, no more than 2-3 short declarative sentences which make only the relevant points above.
As to the question of whether you may avail sourself of the UK courts through MCOL, of course you may. You are a UK resident and the sole question is whether UK courts can obtain jurisdiction over AY which they can as AY operates into (and out of) the UK.
Hopefully, though, this won't require MCOL.
I would make this a very simple claim, no more than 2-3 short declarative sentences which make only the relevant points above.
As to the question of whether you may avail sourself of the UK courts through MCOL, of course you may. You are a UK resident and the sole question is whether UK courts can obtain jurisdiction over AY which they can as AY operates into (and out of) the UK.
Hopefully, though, this won't require MCOL.
Oct 12, 2018, 6:14 am
#725
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Plat (OWE)
Posts: 493
Finnair now in court with Consumer Ombudsman:
Finnair in court over passenger compensation payments | News Now Finland
Finnair in court over passenger compensation payments | News Now Finland
Oct 18, 2018, 5:36 am
#726
Join Date: Apr 2007
Programs: QF, VA, AC, Hyatt, Marriott
Posts: 3,783
Is anyone able to tell me in which court the following judgments were made?
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=82052&pageIndex=0&doclang =EN&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=194684
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=201149&pageIndex=0&doclan g=EN&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=124215
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=82052&pageIndex=0&doclang =EN&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=194684
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=201149&pageIndex=0&doclan g=EN&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=124215
Oct 18, 2018, 6:27 am
#727
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: JOE
Programs: AY+ Silver
Posts: 45
Is anyone able to tell me in which court the following judgments were made?
CURIA - Documents
CURIA - Documents
CURIA - Documents
CURIA - Documents
The first one was introduced by the Latvian Supreme Court and the second by both Amtsgericht Hannover (district court of Hanover, Germany) and Amtsgericht Düsseldorf (district court of Düsseldorf, Germany)
Oct 19, 2018, 8:28 am
#728
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,814
Do I have an EU261 claim for my late-arriving flight causing misconnect in ORD?
Hello,
Thank you so much for this thread.
Can you please advise my entitlement to compensation.
I was booked business class Helsinki to Chicago on Finnair connecting to SFO on American.
The AY flight departed 90 minutes late ( Captain explained they had a shortage of a/c) and arrived at ORD 90 minutes late. This was early evening .
I missed the connection - ie flight was departing by the time i got thru immigration.
The local AY agent offered business class to SFO the next day arriving some 11 hours later than originally scheduled
or
coach class on another airline getting in some 150 minutes late.
I couldn't stomach 4 hours in coach so elected to take the next am flight.
Am I still entitled to claim under regn 261 for arriving 11 hours late on booked flights out of the EU even if i rejected the coach seats on an earlier flight?
many thanks
Thank you so much for this thread.
Can you please advise my entitlement to compensation.
I was booked business class Helsinki to Chicago on Finnair connecting to SFO on American.
The AY flight departed 90 minutes late ( Captain explained they had a shortage of a/c) and arrived at ORD 90 minutes late. This was early evening .
I missed the connection - ie flight was departing by the time i got thru immigration.
The local AY agent offered business class to SFO the next day arriving some 11 hours later than originally scheduled
or
coach class on another airline getting in some 150 minutes late.
I couldn't stomach 4 hours in coach so elected to take the next am flight.
Am I still entitled to claim under regn 261 for arriving 11 hours late on booked flights out of the EU even if i rejected the coach seats on an earlier flight?
many thanks
Oct 19, 2018, 1:13 pm
#729
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 182
Today I received a plump cheque from the bailiffs in London, amounting to EUR 400 per person in compensation, plus court and bailiff fees, for the delay on Finnair's A350 from LHR to HEL in May 2017, which caused us to miss our connection to TLL. Finnair did put us up in a (modest) hotel near to the airport in HEL and provided extremely restricted vouchers for mediocre food in same (water only for drinks). The following day, our re-booked flight to TLL was cancelled, but we got there eventually, about 22 hours late.
AY flatly refused my request of compensation, despite admitting that the delay was due to the late departure of the aircraft from HKG to HEL and thence on to LHR. We are fortunate in the UK to be able to avail ourselves of MoneyClaimOnLine; AY didn't bother to contest my claim, so judgement went in my favour. Neither did they respond to demand for payment. After 9 months and (I believe) more than one attempt, the bailiffs were able to secure funds to settle my claim in full.
As it transpired, we had a cracking night in Helsinki and the payment from AY pretty much covered the entire weekend. Persistence was required, but the MCOL process (in my experience) works.
AY flatly refused my request of compensation, despite admitting that the delay was due to the late departure of the aircraft from HKG to HEL and thence on to LHR. We are fortunate in the UK to be able to avail ourselves of MoneyClaimOnLine; AY didn't bother to contest my claim, so judgement went in my favour. Neither did they respond to demand for payment. After 9 months and (I believe) more than one attempt, the bailiffs were able to secure funds to settle my claim in full.
As it transpired, we had a cracking night in Helsinki and the payment from AY pretty much covered the entire weekend. Persistence was required, but the MCOL process (in my experience) works.
Oct 20, 2018, 1:14 am
#730
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Programs: ►QFWP/LTG►VA WP►HyattExpl.►HiltonGold►ALL Silver
Posts: 21,993
What process was involved in relation to the bailiffs and what eventually had AY cough up the compensation etc.?
Oct 20, 2018, 8:18 am
#731
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 182
As I stated in my initial post, persistence is required once judgement is made in one's favour; I have no idea whether AY routinely chooses to ignore claims and any subsequent judgements against them, but I would assume this is the most cost-effective course of action for them, as some claims will go in their favour and a good proportion of those that don't will be given up by the plaintiff, if my experience is anything to go by. Ultimately this is free money, so don't give up if you have a cast-iron claim!
Oct 21, 2018, 11:34 am
#732
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,016
It reminds me of something I read about in the Danish press a few months ago. An agency (Flyforsinkelse.dk) has sued Vueling on behalf of passengers on a number of occasions, and Danish courts ruled in more than 70 rulings that Vueling had to pay (for all rulings combined) more than one million DKK. Since Vueling refused to pay, the agency sought to send bailiffs to Copenhagen Airport on 27 August this year.
Oct 24, 2018, 2:52 am
#733
Join Date: Aug 2018
Programs: AY Plat
Posts: 4
Claimed under EU 261 for cancelled (20 min before departure) and rerouted flight (originally HEL-KAO with rerouting to OUL and a bus ride OUL-KAO of 3hrs). This meaning a delay of over 3 but under 4 hours. Finnair offered (after 3-4 weeks of handling time) a compensation of 250€ cash or 350€ voucher/gift card. With apologies etc. Accepted the voucher.
Today the same flight (AT7) was cancelled a few hours before departure. The same procedure awaiting about the claim for delay. But this time the plat-line called a few minutes after the SMS and asked if I had the received the message already. The CS-person wanted to apologise since I was the company´s loyalty program´s valued customer etc. And CS was willing to receive comments about the handling of the situation last time. In August, when this happened the last time, it was handled poorly. From the moment of me hearing about the cancellation to departure there was approximately an hour, so I headed to the Schengen lounge in the hopes of coffee and of clearing the seating situation on the new flight. Was promised a front seat (aisle) and got the information on my AY app, too. Then followed the situation on my app, where the seat was changed several times. The flight being HEL-OUL, my guess was that lots of Lumos and Plats were already booked
on the seats which I preferred but was teached otherwise. Arriving at the gate, I got gate alarm on the automated gate and was rigidly advised to wait. Eventually the gate agent found me on her lists and gave me a seat. And guess what, it was finally an aisle seat in a very empty plane at the front and (first 6 rows I counted 6 persons) and me sitting next to two persons. Gate agent managed to give me a seat just next to the only people who were sitting next to each other. Of course it was easy to go and ask FA to be reseated to one of those empty rows. Me apologising to the couple next to me and to the FA that I have to ask for extra treatment.
At OUL, being a small airport, it was not too hard to guess where the bus was leaving, but still being forced to ask (not clear where to head for the bus) was not the service what I´d expect. At the same time some people managed to climb into a minivan and getting a considerably more comfortable ride to KAO (LUMOs?)
All in all the claim for compensation was handled slowly but as expected, everything else was low average.
Today the same flight (AT7) was cancelled a few hours before departure. The same procedure awaiting about the claim for delay. But this time the plat-line called a few minutes after the SMS and asked if I had the received the message already. The CS-person wanted to apologise since I was the company´s loyalty program´s valued customer etc. And CS was willing to receive comments about the handling of the situation last time. In August, when this happened the last time, it was handled poorly. From the moment of me hearing about the cancellation to departure there was approximately an hour, so I headed to the Schengen lounge in the hopes of coffee and of clearing the seating situation on the new flight. Was promised a front seat (aisle) and got the information on my AY app, too. Then followed the situation on my app, where the seat was changed several times. The flight being HEL-OUL, my guess was that lots of Lumos and Plats were already booked
on the seats which I preferred but was teached otherwise. Arriving at the gate, I got gate alarm on the automated gate and was rigidly advised to wait. Eventually the gate agent found me on her lists and gave me a seat. And guess what, it was finally an aisle seat in a very empty plane at the front and (first 6 rows I counted 6 persons) and me sitting next to two persons. Gate agent managed to give me a seat just next to the only people who were sitting next to each other. Of course it was easy to go and ask FA to be reseated to one of those empty rows. Me apologising to the couple next to me and to the FA that I have to ask for extra treatment. At OUL, being a small airport, it was not too hard to guess where the bus was leaving, but still being forced to ask (not clear where to head for the bus) was not the service what I´d expect. At the same time some people managed to climb into a minivan and getting a considerably more comfortable ride to KAO (LUMOs?)
All in all the claim for compensation was handled slowly but as expected, everything else was low average.
Oct 27, 2018, 9:41 am
#734
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 812
Just added to the wiki a reference to the recent judgment of the CJEU in Harms v Vueling dated 12 September 2018.
In summary, for the purpose of calculating the ticket price (where a passenger whose flight has been cancelled seeks a reimbursement), the difference between the amount paid by the passenger and the amount received by the air carrier (corresponding to the commission collected by a person acting as an intermediary between those two parties) is included in the ticket price, unless that commission was set without the knowledge of the air carrier.
In summary, for the purpose of calculating the ticket price (where a passenger whose flight has been cancelled seeks a reimbursement), the difference between the amount paid by the passenger and the amount received by the air carrier (corresponding to the commission collected by a person acting as an intermediary between those two parties) is included in the ticket price, unless that commission was set without the knowledge of the air carrier.
Nov 26, 2018, 12:13 am
#735
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,598
Got a reply for a recent claim that my flight was cancelled due to illness situation leading to lack of air traffic controller at KEM.
"Kemin kentän lennonjohdon rajoitusten vuoksi. Lennonjohdon sairastapauksen vuoksi kentällä ei ollut lennonjohtoa. Koska kyseessä on poikkeukselliset olosuhteet, emme ikävä kyllä maksa vakiokorvausta."
I suspect this is total BS: anyone with an idea how to check if that is true or not? Or if even true, is that really "out of their control"?
I got the flight-cancelled SMS just 3,5 hours before departure and was rerouted and obviously lost my connections.
"Kemin kentän lennonjohdon rajoitusten vuoksi. Lennonjohdon sairastapauksen vuoksi kentällä ei ollut lennonjohtoa. Koska kyseessä on poikkeukselliset olosuhteet, emme ikävä kyllä maksa vakiokorvausta."
I suspect this is total BS: anyone with an idea how to check if that is true or not? Or if even true, is that really "out of their control"?
I got the flight-cancelled SMS just 3,5 hours before departure and was rerouted and obviously lost my connections.