NoWindowSeat

It’s only natural for everything to change. Regarding over crowded lounges..not many years ago Silvers had AY lounge access, just imagine how the situation would be if that still existed..and, nobody is talking about reinstating Silver access.

It is simply that Gold is way too easy to get nowadays plus for every Plat there’s a new Gold as well.

AY need to check the thresholds/quali criteria/access rules sooner than later. We know it, they know it, only question is how it will be implemented.

Antx

As someone who's business travel is limited to "fly cheapest available Y to the US", I respectfully disagree to the part of it being easy to get gold. Should AY really be targeting only for one group, essentially only employees of companies who let people fly in J? Would that be a smart move for anyone?

I would imagine that most of the giveaway-golds fly pretty seldom and mostly together with the plat so I would be surprised if this group causes any real crowding issues. The one or two times a year they fly together they can guest 2 more...

NoWindowSeat

In what business cheap charlies enjoy all the benefits and why should AY offer easy perks to people who do not spend money with them? No pun intended.

Antx

Well, 8 times in dense cattle class at 1200 EUR per R/T is 9600 EUR, and that does not guarantee you gold yet. But yeah, maybe we who are cursed with our employers at our field of work should just fly some other airline, or rather take a container ship, to make sure the proper elites don't get a crowded feeling. After all, any loyalty program only should build loyalty with the 0.01%.

NoWindowSeat

1200€ for coach return and policy is cheapest Y..? You must have a really crappy TA that your company uses if they cannot find cheaper alternatives across carriers..😁

I thought more like 300-500€ returns..if your company pays those prices then AY makes tons of money from you...just suffering from cartel pricing and no value fares available...with that spending you should be Gold for sure.

FFlash

I also experienced this ”family crowding” now.

What makes it unbearable is the lack of conduct. These ”families” dont understand lounge behaviour. Standing in way for others. Slow movements making long queues. Bags lying in way for others. Simply sloppy
behaviour in all aspects. I am sure that similar amount of people during business days the actions are much more ”smooth” due to frequenters who know how to.

I am a family man too and usually defend ”kids assault” here on FT but this time I lost my patience in the lounge.

Antx

Might be a bad TA, might be the late bookings, might be the connections that add up. Never seen anything for under 900 EUR, typically around 1200 EUR but some times need to buy 2500 EUR R/T (which does credit better) as a late booking punishment.

What I am trying to convey here, is that diversity and new elites is actually a good thing for any loyalty program in the long period. I understand the protectionism, but if the program is unattainable for the most, business will most likely be lost and elite benefits will get worse. And I would assume that even Y customers are still a non-irrelevant amount of business for airlines. You can fit a lot of people in Y on a LH flight. They might be considered as ballast, but (at least the loyal ones) still participate in building profit.

NoWindowSeat

Last minute Y bookings are the best for an airline, absolutely the best. Most money per sq.m. / costs anywhere on the plane.

Someone w/o status buying 2500€ Y return and you might see a Lumo (segment runner who paid total of 4-5ke for 150 segments😁 ) with a 250€ ticket on the same plane being upgraded to J FOC. Fair? Definitely not, does it happen? Yes.

Purjelentaja

This morning HEL-ARN. Exit row with middle seat empty between two elites, perhaps due to the imaginary seat block. Some random passenger complains of his assigned seating the FA, and she without any hesitation offers the empty seat to him! AY, no, DO NOT do this, even if the seat block is imaginary, if for any reason the seat next to an elite is empty, leave it like that!!!

Clydez

Isnt Exit row not free to choose for non statue pax? or am i wrong?
If so, then he /she shouldnt sit there without paying. If there is empty J doesnt mean i dont like my original Y seat and I could move to J.

Antx

Not so long ago a status passenger on an SH flight boarded after me and started immediately complaining to the FA that I had taken his exit seat he had reserved a long time ago. Obviously I do not have any super powers to steal anyone's seat. When I booked the seat it was available and that seat was what I had in my boarding pass. There was an equipment change and two curtain moves a month into the flight, so I assume he lost his seat then. He got to select a seat from the available exit row seats, luckily there was no need to fill the middle seat.

niksal

This. I am in the group who make Plat typically quite barely. I will most likely end up somewhere around 175k points and 85 segments at the end of this period. This is with a bit of an effort, e.g. flying with my own money ARN-HEL-MIA-HEL-ARN in J. Without that, I'd be cutting close to the 150k line. For my private and business trips within Europe, I make a real effort to always fly AY and often end up paying more. Let's say Plat would be increased to 200k/100 segments, then I probably couldn't make it. Then I'd probably be less loyal, and e.g. fly the evening before with SK or LH on my trips to BRU, AMS, WAW, LHR and other places where AY charges me 500-900€ for a R/T ticket. I think that would cost more (=less profit) to AY than allowing me to have my porridge most of the weeks in the Schengen lounge, maybe 4 times per year visit the Platinum Wing and give me a few upgrades to J intra-Europe (max once per year longhaul for me). The downside then might be that the lounges are more crowded, but at least we have an airline that a) exists b) can offer a lounge. By having a elite level that is realistic for me, AY makes more money out of me. Am I thinking something wrong here?

Oh yes, I give my Gold card to my wife. She flies maybe 4 times per year, and even her upgrade vouchers she is struggling with how to use. I doubt she is the reason for crowded lounges.

miikka

I think overall for the crowded Schengen lounge the best action would be to simply do the same as with non-Schengen. Build larger space and separate the sides into Platinum and Business/Gold sides. Seems to be working fine in the non-Schengen area, why not the same in Schengen.

NoWindowSeat

This is difficult subject without making false assumptions. It is just a fact that AY has too many tier members for the size of their business, they already have large lounges for their fleet size and they are often very, very crowded so they need to do something about that. They killed Silver access for this very reason, now it’s just time for the next step, it’s not more complicated than that. I still stand behind my argument that AY tiers are too easy to reach via SH segments and those segment guys also fly most times = further stress on the lounges and the level of service/experience goes down for all.

NoWindowSeat

In ideal world, perhaps. However for AY short haul network only exists because that’s mandatory for their long haul strategy.

For this very reason it makes one wonder how
much this is in their interest. I believe it makes better business sense to furher stick it to their Finnish/Nordic customer base, they might lose few customers to competition on the short term but if they play it clever it could bring more in the long run.

People forget things and changes very quickly, as happened with Silvers losing lounges...hasn’t even been mentioned in years..

I also think AY over reacted to the threat from LCC competition and hence tried to keep SH customers by making tiers easy to get via segments. That fear was/is false and now a correction move is needed. AY is more or less LCC themselves on short haul anyway..