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This is no way, AY - things to improve [feedback thread]

This is no way, AY - things to improve [feedback thread]

Old Feb 18, 20, 1:16 am
  #1366  
Ambassador: Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat, BA Silver, HHonors/Carlson Gold
Posts: 3,993
It’s only natural for everything to change. Regarding over crowded lounges..not many years ago Silvers had AY lounge access, just imagine how the situation would be if that still existed..and, nobody is talking about reinstating Silver access.

It is simply that Gold is way too easy to get nowadays plus for every Plat there’s a new Gold as well.

AY need to check the thresholds/quali criteria/access rules sooner than later. We know it, they know it, only question is how it will be implemented.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 1:32 am
  #1367  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by NoWindowSeat View Post
It is simply that Gold is way too easy to get nowadays plus for every Plat there’s a new Gold as well.
As someone who's business travel is limited to "fly cheapest available Y to the US", I respectfully disagree to the part of it being easy to get gold. Should AY really be targeting only for one group, essentially only employees of companies who let people fly in J? Would that be a smart move for anyone?

Originally Posted by NoWindowSeat View Post
for every Plat there’s a new Gold as well.
I would imagine that most of the giveaway-golds fly pretty seldom and mostly together with the plat so I would be surprised if this group causes any real crowding issues. The one or two times a year they fly together they can guest 2 more...
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Old Feb 18, 20, 1:36 am
  #1368  
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Originally Posted by Antx View Post
As someone who's business travel is limited to "fly cheapest available Y to the US", I respectfully disagree to the part of it being easy to get gold.
In what business cheap charlies enjoy all the benefits and why should AY offer easy perks to people who do not spend money with them? No pun intended.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 1:45 am
  #1369  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: HEL
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Originally Posted by NoWindowSeat View Post
In what business cheap charlies enjoy all the benefits and why should AY offer easy perks to people who do not spend money with them? No pun intended.
Well, 8 times in dense cattle class at 1200 EUR per R/T is 9600 EUR, and that does not guarantee you gold yet. But yeah, maybe we who are cursed with our employers at our field of work should just fly some other airline, or rather take a container ship, to make sure the proper elites don't get a crowded feeling. After all, any loyalty program only should build loyalty with the 0.01%.

Last edited by Antx; Feb 18, 20 at 3:44 am Reason: fixed typo
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Old Feb 18, 20, 1:50 am
  #1370  
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Originally Posted by Antx View Post
Well, 8 times in dense cattle class at 1200 EUR per R/T is 9600 EUR, and that does not guarantee you gold yet. But yeah, maybe we who are cursed with our employees at our field of work should just fly some other airline, or rather take a container ship, to make sure the proper elites don't get a crowded feeling. After all, any loyalty program only should build loyalty with the 0.01%.
1200€ for coach return and policy is cheapest Y..? You must have a really crappy TA that your company uses if they cannot find cheaper alternatives across carriers..😁

I thought more like 300-500€ returns..if your company pays those prices then AY makes tons of money from you...just suffering from cartel pricing and no value fares available...with that spending you should be Gold for sure.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 2:05 am
  #1371  
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Originally Posted by niksal View Post
My opinion: stability is good, so I don’t want to change the thresholds. But what could be done? Guest privileges could be restricted at peak times. For instance today, the schengen lounge was really packed, and it looked like a lot of families of 4-5. I have two kids myself and appreciate the possibility to visit the lounge with my family when going on a holiday. But maybe the most popular holidays could be restricted to one or no guest?
I also experienced this ”family crowding” now.

What makes it unbearable is the lack of conduct. These ”families” dont understand lounge behaviour. Standing in way for others. Slow movements making long queues. Bags lying in way for others. Simply sloppy
behaviour in all aspects. I am sure that similar amount of people during business days the actions are much more ”smooth” due to frequenters who know how to.

I am a family man too and usually defend ”kids assault” here on FT but this time I lost my patience in the lounge.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 2:07 am
  #1372  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
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Originally Posted by NoWindowSeat View Post
1200€ for coach return and policy is cheapest Y..? You must have a really crappy TA that your company uses if they cannot find cheaper alternatives across carriers..😁

I thought more like 300-500€ returns..if your company pays those prices then AY makes tons of money from you...just suffering from cartel pricing and no value fares available...
Might be a bad TA, might be the late bookings, might be the connections that add up. Never seen anything for under 900 EUR, typically around 1200 EUR but some times need to buy 2500 EUR R/T (which does credit better) as a late booking punishment.

What I am trying to convey here, is that diversity and new elites is actually a good thing for any loyalty program in the long period. I understand the protectionism, but if the program is unattainable for the most, business will most likely be lost and elite benefits will get worse. And I would assume that even Y customers are still a non-irrelevant amount of business for airlines. You can fit a lot of people in Y on a LH flight. They might be considered as ballast, but (at least the loyal ones) still participate in building profit.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 2:16 am
  #1373  
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Originally Posted by Antx View Post
Might be a bad TA, might be the late bookings, might be the connections that add up. Never seen anything for under 900 EUR, typically around 1200 EUR but some times need to buy 2500 EUR R/T (which does credit better) as a late booking punishment.

And I would assume that even Y customers are still a non-irrelevant amount of business for airlines. You can fit a lot of people in Y on a LH flight. They might be considered as ballast, but (at least the loyal ones) still participate in building profit.
Last minute Y bookings are the best for an airline, absolutely the best. Most money per sq.m. / costs anywhere on the plane.

Someone w/o status buying 2500€ Y return and you might see a Lumo (segment runner who paid total of 4-5ke for 150 segments😁 ) with a 250€ ticket on the same plane being upgraded to J FOC. Fair? Definitely not, does it happen? Yes.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 3:49 am
  #1374  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
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This morning HEL-ARN. Exit row with middle seat empty between two elites, perhaps due to the imaginary seat block. Some random passenger complains of his assigned seating the FA, and she without any hesitation offers the empty seat to him! AY, no, DO NOT do this, even if the seat block is imaginary, if for any reason the seat next to an elite is empty, leave it like that!!!
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Old Feb 18, 20, 4:10 am
  #1375  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Isnt Exit row not free to choose for non statue pax? or am i wrong?
If so, then he /she shouldnt sit there without paying. If there is empty J doesnt mean i dont like my original Y seat and I could move to J.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 4:22 am
  #1376  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
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Originally Posted by Clydez View Post
Isnt Exit row not free to choose for non statue pax? or am i wrong?
If so, then he /she shouldnt sit there without paying. If there is empty J doesnt mean i dont like my original Y seat and I could move to J.
Not so long ago a status passenger on an SH flight boarded after me and started immediately complaining to the FA that I had taken his exit seat he had reserved a long time ago. Obviously I do not have any super powers to steal anyone's seat. When I booked the seat it was available and that seat was what I had in my boarding pass. There was an equipment change and two curtain moves a month into the flight, so I assume he lost his seat then. He got to select a seat from the available exit row seats, luckily there was no need to fill the middle seat.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 5:10 am
  #1377  
 
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Originally Posted by Antx View Post

What I am trying to convey here, is that diversity and new elites is actually a good thing for any loyalty program in the long period. I understand the protectionism, but if the program is unattainable for the most, business will most likely be lost and elite benefits will get worse. And I would assume that even Y customers are still a non-irrelevant amount of business for airlines. You can fit a lot of people in Y on a LH flight. They might be considered as ballast, but (at least the loyal ones) still participate in building profit.
This. I am in the group who make Plat typically quite barely. I will most likely end up somewhere around 175k points and 85 segments at the end of this period. This is with a bit of an effort, e.g. flying with my own money ARN-HEL-MIA-HEL-ARN in J. Without that, I'd be cutting close to the 150k line. For my private and business trips within Europe, I make a real effort to always fly AY and often end up paying more. Let's say Plat would be increased to 200k/100 segments, then I probably couldn't make it. Then I'd probably be less loyal, and e.g. fly the evening before with SK or LH on my trips to BRU, AMS, WAW, LHR and other places where AY charges me 500-900€ for a R/T ticket. I think that would cost more (=less profit) to AY than allowing me to have my porridge most of the weeks in the Schengen lounge, maybe 4 times per year visit the Platinum Wing and give me a few upgrades to J intra-Europe (max once per year longhaul for me). The downside then might be that the lounges are more crowded, but at least we have an airline that a) exists b) can offer a lounge. By having a elite level that is realistic for me, AY makes more money out of me. Am I thinking something wrong here?

Oh yes, I give my Gold card to my wife. She flies maybe 4 times per year, and even her upgrade vouchers she is struggling with how to use. I doubt she is the reason for crowded lounges.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 5:19 am
  #1378  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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I think overall for the crowded Schengen lounge the best action would be to simply do the same as with non-Schengen. Build larger space and separate the sides into Platinum and Business/Gold sides. Seems to be working fine in the non-Schengen area, why not the same in Schengen.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 5:21 am
  #1379  
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This is difficult subject without making false assumptions. It is just a fact that AY has too many tier members for the size of their business, they already have large lounges for their fleet size and they are often very, very crowded so they need to do something about that. They killed Silver access for this very reason, now it’s just time for the next step, it’s not more complicated than that. I still stand behind my argument that AY tiers are too easy to reach via SH segments and those segment guys also fly most times = further stress on the lounges and the level of service/experience goes down for all.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 5:43 am
  #1380  
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Originally Posted by miikka View Post
I think overall for the crowded Schengen lounge the best action would be to simply do the same as with non-Schengen. Build larger space and separate the sides into Platinum and Business/Gold sides. Seems to be working fine in the non-Schengen area, why not the same in Schengen.
In ideal world, perhaps. However for AY short haul network only exists because that’s mandatory for their long haul strategy.

For this very reason it makes one wonder how
much this is in their interest. I believe it makes better business sense to furher stick it to their Finnish/Nordic customer base, they might lose few customers to competition on the short term but if they play it clever it could bring more in the long run.

People forget things and changes very quickly, as happened with Silvers losing lounges...hasn’t even been mentioned in years..

I also think AY over reacted to the threat from LCC competition and hence tried to keep SH customers by making tiers easy to get via segments. That fear was/is false and now a correction move is needed. AY is more or less LCC themselves on short haul anyway..

Last edited by NoWindowSeat; Feb 18, 20 at 5:52 am
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