ffay005

I assume most people pay for longhaul J because they want to rest/sleep and they want a more peaceful environment. A crying infant suits this concept rather poorly. My MIA-HEL last winter wasn't exactly a smooth and calm experience in this regard and I have the same flight coming up this winter...

So, since most of AY's longhaul aircraft have two J cabins, why not force certain passengers to sit in the minicabin? In Y, the seat map looks very different depending on how much you paid for your ticket and what status you have. Couldn't this work for J, as well? While it wouldn't completely fix the noise problem, with good curtains and correct use of them, it would make the main J cabin quieter.

J minicabin:
- all reservations that include a pax aged 0–5
- all pax travelling on award tickets or any kind of upgrades
- all non-status pax booked in C, D, I

J main cabin:
- all pax booked in full J (with no kid in reservation)
- all status pax (with no kid in reservation)

If on a certain flight there are more pax who are only entitled to minicabin than there are seats in that cabin, then the IT system could automatically offer the main cabin for status pax on upgrades etc...

There would of course be no need to advertise this as such, just as they do not advertise the fact that a statusless Y pax on a cheap ticket isn't able to choose a Y seat freely, not even with money, but just sees more crosses on the seatmap than someone else. It would just be something that AY would quietly start implementing.

Your thoughts?

sueco6

The best I've read for a long time 👍
OTE=ffay005;25755301]I assume most people pay for longhaul J because they want to rest/sleep and they want a more peaceful environment. A crying infant suits this concept rather poorly. My MIA-HEL last winter wasn't exactly a smooth and calm experience in this regard and I have the same flight coming up this winter...

So, since most of AY's longhaul aircraft have two J cabins, why not force certain passengers to sit in the minicabin? In Y, the seat map looks very different depending on how much you paid for your ticket and what status you have. Couldn't this work for J, as well? While it wouldn't completely fix the noise problem, with good curtains and correct use of them, it would make the main J cabin quieter.

J minicabin:
- all reservations that include a pax aged 0–5
- all pax travelling on award tickets or miles upgrades or paid upgrades
- all non-status pax booked in C, D, I

J main cabin:
- all pax booked in full J (with no kid in reservation)
- all status pax (with no kid in reservation)

If on a certain flight there are more pax who are only entitled to minicabin than there are seats in that cabin, then the IT system could automatically offer the main cabin for status pax on upgrades etc...

There would of course be no need to advertise this as such, just as they do not advertise the fact that a statusless Y pax on a cheap ticket isn't able to choose a Y seat freely, not even with money, but just sees more crosses on the seatmap than someone else. It would just be something that AY would quietly start implementing.

Your thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Courmisch

I assume most people pay for long-haul because their business travel policy allows it (or because they can afford it on their vacation trips), regardless of them needing to sleep or not. If you need sleep, the best solution is to arrive the day before, no matter what cabin you fly.

The "salary/cost" band such that one day of the traveler's time is
- more expensive than the difference from economy to business class, yet
- cheaper than hiring a private jet,
exists but it is a lot narrower and smaller than the whole set of business class customers.

If people were in business class only to sleep, there would be never be a baby customer there in the first place.

With that being said, I would be pissed if a young children prevented me from sleeping in J. As I would in the same circumstances in Y comfort. Or anywhere really. The best protections against crying babies are ear plugs or noise cancelling headset, and attentive parents.

miikka

My son had his first long-haul when he was 1 year old, in Y Comfort and first row. He was woken up by other children when they decided to perform a synchronized crying but he decided not to join at all (he wanted to have his own peace in his crib and sleep more).

He had a second long-haul when he was 2 years old, this time in mini-cabin. He was happy to discover that the buttons actually change the seat position and shape but after awhile he decided to skip the meal and go to sleep. I woke him up just before landing and he didn't disturb anyone during the whole flight.

You cannot decide the rules so easily, otherwise we should also start limiting certain type of adults. We have business travelers who are traveling in a group and decide to spend the whole flight drinking and talking loudly, we have people who walk around the cabin continuously and so on.

This is life, I don't notice them because I made an investment and bought a good pair for noise cancelling headsets already long time ago.

And plus, I try to avoid holiday routes like HEL-MIA-HEL - too much charter feeling so I take some other route with more balanced business/leisure travelers.

reflektia

I for one prefer minicabin over huge cabin. Oh wait, you already had me labeled to minicabin

ffay005

Okay, while I'm not completely alone, it feels that I'm not getting too many friends, either. Perhaps it's better to have the kindergarten all over the plane compared to a designated area then...

However, the reason for such a policy is often that the employee will arrive in a condition that allows him to work upon arrival. That's why a company will let their employees travel on J.

Age limits are never without problems. Many 16-year-olds would be perfectly able to drive a car whereas many 20-year olds, or 85-year-olds for that matter, are not. Yet practically everyone 18 and above can get a driving license in Finland...

If it makes you feel better, I labeled myself to minicabin as well for at least 50 % of my longhaul J flights.

Courmisch

In J, I have had a lot more problems with Finnish bisneticians (or is it bisneticists?) talking too loudly too long, than small kids.

Clearly, Finnair should forbid more than one Nordic person from the same company flying in the same business cabin! </sarcasm>

oliver2002

Yep, loudly talking colleagues, snoring gentlemen, fellow pax chatting up FAs, etc etc come to mind.

NoWindowSeat

Every pax, small or big, have the right to fly in whatever cabin and seat they want/prefer. More often the adult pax are much more disturbing in J than any baby who happens to be there.

Dont have infants/toddlers anymore myself but when I did, it was row 1 every time, never even a second thought on the matter.

Opinions do vary and this is just mine.

SPBanker

And as many/most of us know, this topic crops up regularly in various parts of FT. So far, no consensus, but I think most arguments have been presented in this thread as well...

ffay005

As you very well know, this is not true. When flying Y, AY routinely restricts seat selection both at check-in and also at advance seat selection, even against payment. The best seats are not to be had if you are statusless and/or travel on a cheap ticket. An exit seat may have a set price in euros, but even forking out those euros will not help if all you see is a cross on the seatmap when at the same time your friend sees the very same seat as available.

NoWindowSeat

Well that is a status thing then, not age related. In whY families with babies tend to get the best seats, actually..if your point is that in J row1 bassinets should be reserved for status pax/families...maybe but then again AY has decided not to give any status benefits when it comes to J seat selection? Should they, I dont know or even care too much with the current cabins they have.

swiss_global

I think a small change in fare conditions would do most of the job: Just take away infant discount or at least reduce it to the level of child discount (and give the infant a seat, i.e. seat space). This would take away much of the grief and anger. Small kids not squeezed into "no space" are generally also much happier and less troublesome.

ffay005

No, my point was to place infants as far away from row 1 as possible. I'm sorry if my original post was unclear.

ffay005

This is probably true. I wonder what kind of pricing policy AA has with infants and toddlers. On my intra-US flights, there's rarely one to be seen and even more rarely one to be heard in flight, whereas AY sometimes seems a kindergarten even if the destination is something like LHR, ie not your typical family holiday destination.