Nov 4, 15, 9:05 am
Last edit by: OH-LGG
Finnair (AY) company website dedicated for A350 fleet can be found HERE
!!
bold= new cabin
!!
A350 Deliveries
OH-LWA (msn 18) delivered 7th Oct 2015 is the first Finnair A350 and started long-haul operations as AY57 to PVG on 21st Nov 2015.
OH-LWB (msn 19) was delivered 14th Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 19th Dec 2015.
OH-LWC (msn 20) was delivered 31st Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jan 2016.
OH-LWD (msn 22) was delivered 25th Mar 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 28th Mar 2016.
OH-LWE (msn 23) was delivered 29th Apr 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 1st May 2016
OH-LWF (msn 28) was delivered 25th Jun 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 27th Jun 2016
OH-LWG (msn 51) was delivered 29th Sep 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 30th Sep 2016
OH-LWH (msn 97) was delivered 04th Apr 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Apr 2017
OH-LWI (msn 104) was delivered 02nd Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Jun 2017
OH-LWK (msn 113) was delivered 30th Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jul 2017
OH-LWL (msn 134) was delivered on 22th Sep 2017, started as AY 831 to LHR on 27th Sep 2017 and started longhauls on 29th Sep 2017 as AY89 to BKK.
OH-LWM (msn 264) was delivered on 13th Dec 2018, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 19th Dec 2018
OH-LWN (msn 273) was delivered on 13th Feb 2019, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 16th Feb 2019
OH-LWO (msn 300) was delivered on 26th Apr 2019, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 29th Apr 2019
OH-LWP (msn 392) was delivered on 10th Feb 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 13th Feb 2020
OH-LWR (msn 410) was delivered on 1st Sep 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 8th Sep 2020
OH-LWS (msn 516) was delivered on 29th Dec 2021, started long haul operations as AY87 to PVG (cargo only) on 24th Jan 2022, first pax service on 28th Feb 2022 as AY9
Seating
2 different configurations exists.
J/46 Y/251: Features 2 J cabins. First 8 birds and 12th(LWA-LWH, LWM) has this config
J/32 Y/304: The minicabin is removed and replaced with Y seating. Babycots in 1L and 41L. Birds 9-11, 13, 15 (LWI-LWL, LWN, LWP) has this config, a.k.a. marsuhkki config.
Complete seatmap and layout of config 1 can be found HERE and config 2 is here.
Business Class features Zodiac Cirrus III full-flat bed seats in a 1-2-1 abreast config, all seats with direct access to the aisle. Config1 has two business class cabins, row1-8 and 9-12, while config2 only has one (row 1-8). Early reviews has preferred front cabin over minicabin, and for best window seat, row 2 or 1 may be preferable, row 1 for aisle seats.
As operations of A350 has matured, it has become practice to set the snack-bar on top of the cupboard in front of row 1, making row 1 experience a lot of foot traffic and noise.
Config2 also suffers from low toilet/pax quota (2 toilets / 32 pax) as the aft toilets has been assigned to the high density Y cabin, further contributing to high foot traffic in the front of the cabin. For these reasons, a seat further to the back may be preferable. However, all service start in the front and it will usually take a long time to get your meal in row 8.
For couples travelling together there is no clear choice. DH-seats are tilted towards each-other, but you still will not see the other person without leaning forwards. Seat across aisles (AD and HL respectively) has no barriers between them, but are tilted the wrong way and rows are also slightly misaligned.
Economy Comfort on A350 has the exact same seats as in economy, but with ≈4" inches more legroom. They also come with noise cancelling headphones, 1h internet, priority boarding and a small amenity kit.
Finnair platinums and OWE members can select these seats for free. (OWE must call to do so). Other passengers can select comfort seats for a fee, and seats are also sold after boarding.
On config1 comfort is row 21-25, while on config 2 comfort is row 21-24 + 25ABC and 25JKL. Row 21 is bulkhead and has slightly more space, as no seat reclines into the space. None of the configs has that super-space found on some retrofitted A330 though.
On config1 21AC and 21JL are the only paired seats making them preferable, but if you want to have IFE screen in the seat in front of you, pick row 22. On config2 all seats are in groups of 3, and it is also recommended to stay away from row 21 entirely, as it is entangled with the toilets.
In terms of space there are no seats in comfort cabin on either config that beats exit row 41A/C/J/L or 42A/L.
Economy Class features 3-3-3 abreast slimline seating with 32" pitch. The best seats are row 41 with most legroom on A/C/J/L (but they lack window), and row 42 A/L.
These are either labled "extra legroom" or "exit row" and are selectable with status or for a fee.
Economy cabin offers USB for charge - no AC outlets.
In-Flight Entertainment
IFE system is upgraded. Bigger screens, wider selection of movies and music, route mapper and control options. You can watch a movie from start to landing. You will have Bose noise-cancelling earphones in business class and in Economy comfort, and earplugs in economy class.
Wifi: you will see a code (in business class) in the screen when you open the IFE and select language. In economy class, you need to ask cabin crew for a voucher code if you are OWS/OWE, otherwise it costs you 7,95 per hour, 11,95 per three hours or 19,95 for the whole flight. It may take some time until up in the air to get it started. Log in is required, once you have created an account and password, the system will recognize you next time.
Quality issues and early refurbishment
The seats in business class have had many quality issues from day one. Apart from some inherent problems with the seat design, there are also malfunctions and abnormal wear.
As every row has slightly different pitch, fittings and trimmings have had to de adopted manually. Apart from causing delays in delivery, this also has led to many things in the cabin tend to come loose, to squeak and to break.
In june 2017 it was announced that Airbus has accepted responsibility for the quality issues and will replace every seat on every plane delivered until that point in time (9 birds).
The refurbish will take place during the first round of major maintenance round, scheduled to start later this year.
There is no information if there will be any changes made at the same time (addressing complaints about cramped seats and missing stowage space for example), but most likely this is treated as a warranty action and so cabin will be equipped with the exact same seats and layout, albeit with a newer batch of seats.
More details and discussion:
FAM (Familiarization) flights were ongoing within European destinations until the first A350 aircraft was put on regular long-haul service on 21st November 2015. Here is a list of FAM flights quoted by a FT'er.
The "famous" introduction list with initial experiences can be found in THIS thread
Discussion about the first long-haul services and experiences can be found in another THREAD
Links to many trip reports can be found in https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finn...ion-links.html.
!!
bold= new cabin
!!
A350 Deliveries
OH-LWA (msn 18) delivered 7th Oct 2015 is the first Finnair A350 and started long-haul operations as AY57 to PVG on 21st Nov 2015.
OH-LWB (msn 19) was delivered 14th Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 19th Dec 2015.
OH-LWC (msn 20) was delivered 31st Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jan 2016.
OH-LWD (msn 22) was delivered 25th Mar 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 28th Mar 2016.
OH-LWE (msn 23) was delivered 29th Apr 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 1st May 2016
OH-LWF (msn 28) was delivered 25th Jun 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 27th Jun 2016
OH-LWG (msn 51) was delivered 29th Sep 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 30th Sep 2016
OH-LWH (msn 97) was delivered 04th Apr 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Apr 2017
OH-LWI (msn 104) was delivered 02nd Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Jun 2017
OH-LWK (msn 113) was delivered 30th Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jul 2017
OH-LWL (msn 134) was delivered on 22th Sep 2017, started as AY 831 to LHR on 27th Sep 2017 and started longhauls on 29th Sep 2017 as AY89 to BKK.
OH-LWM (msn 264) was delivered on 13th Dec 2018, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 19th Dec 2018
OH-LWN (msn 273) was delivered on 13th Feb 2019, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 16th Feb 2019
OH-LWO (msn 300) was delivered on 26th Apr 2019, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 29th Apr 2019
OH-LWP (msn 392) was delivered on 10th Feb 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 13th Feb 2020
OH-LWR (msn 410) was delivered on 1st Sep 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 8th Sep 2020
OH-LWS (msn 516) was delivered on 29th Dec 2021, started long haul operations as AY87 to PVG (cargo only) on 24th Jan 2022, first pax service on 28th Feb 2022 as AY9
Seating
2 different configurations exists.
J/46 Y/251: Features 2 J cabins. First 8 birds and 12th(LWA-LWH, LWM) has this config
J/32 Y/304: The minicabin is removed and replaced with Y seating. Babycots in 1L and 41L. Birds 9-11, 13, 15 (LWI-LWL, LWN, LWP) has this config, a.k.a. marsuhkki config.
Complete seatmap and layout of config 1 can be found HERE and config 2 is here.
Business Class features Zodiac Cirrus III full-flat bed seats in a 1-2-1 abreast config, all seats with direct access to the aisle. Config1 has two business class cabins, row1-8 and 9-12, while config2 only has one (row 1-8). Early reviews has preferred front cabin over minicabin, and for best window seat, row 2 or 1 may be preferable, row 1 for aisle seats.
As operations of A350 has matured, it has become practice to set the snack-bar on top of the cupboard in front of row 1, making row 1 experience a lot of foot traffic and noise.
Config2 also suffers from low toilet/pax quota (2 toilets / 32 pax) as the aft toilets has been assigned to the high density Y cabin, further contributing to high foot traffic in the front of the cabin. For these reasons, a seat further to the back may be preferable. However, all service start in the front and it will usually take a long time to get your meal in row 8.
For couples travelling together there is no clear choice. DH-seats are tilted towards each-other, but you still will not see the other person without leaning forwards. Seat across aisles (AD and HL respectively) has no barriers between them, but are tilted the wrong way and rows are also slightly misaligned.
Economy Comfort on A350 has the exact same seats as in economy, but with ≈4" inches more legroom. They also come with noise cancelling headphones, 1h internet, priority boarding and a small amenity kit.
Finnair platinums and OWE members can select these seats for free. (OWE must call to do so). Other passengers can select comfort seats for a fee, and seats are also sold after boarding.
On config1 comfort is row 21-25, while on config 2 comfort is row 21-24 + 25ABC and 25JKL. Row 21 is bulkhead and has slightly more space, as no seat reclines into the space. None of the configs has that super-space found on some retrofitted A330 though.
On config1 21AC and 21JL are the only paired seats making them preferable, but if you want to have IFE screen in the seat in front of you, pick row 22. On config2 all seats are in groups of 3, and it is also recommended to stay away from row 21 entirely, as it is entangled with the toilets.
In terms of space there are no seats in comfort cabin on either config that beats exit row 41A/C/J/L or 42A/L.
Economy Class features 3-3-3 abreast slimline seating with 32" pitch. The best seats are row 41 with most legroom on A/C/J/L (but they lack window), and row 42 A/L.
These are either labled "extra legroom" or "exit row" and are selectable with status or for a fee.
Economy cabin offers USB for charge - no AC outlets.
In-Flight Entertainment
IFE system is upgraded. Bigger screens, wider selection of movies and music, route mapper and control options. You can watch a movie from start to landing. You will have Bose noise-cancelling earphones in business class and in Economy comfort, and earplugs in economy class.
Wifi: you will see a code (in business class) in the screen when you open the IFE and select language. In economy class, you need to ask cabin crew for a voucher code if you are OWS/OWE, otherwise it costs you 7,95 per hour, 11,95 per three hours or 19,95 for the whole flight. It may take some time until up in the air to get it started. Log in is required, once you have created an account and password, the system will recognize you next time.
Quality issues and early refurbishment
The seats in business class have had many quality issues from day one. Apart from some inherent problems with the seat design, there are also malfunctions and abnormal wear.
As every row has slightly different pitch, fittings and trimmings have had to de adopted manually. Apart from causing delays in delivery, this also has led to many things in the cabin tend to come loose, to squeak and to break.
In june 2017 it was announced that Airbus has accepted responsibility for the quality issues and will replace every seat on every plane delivered until that point in time (9 birds).
The refurbish will take place during the first round of major maintenance round, scheduled to start later this year.
There is no information if there will be any changes made at the same time (addressing complaints about cramped seats and missing stowage space for example), but most likely this is treated as a warranty action and so cabin will be equipped with the exact same seats and layout, albeit with a newer batch of seats.
More details and discussion:
FAM (Familiarization) flights were ongoing within European destinations until the first A350 aircraft was put on regular long-haul service on 21st November 2015. Here is a list of FAM flights quoted by a FT'er.
The "famous" introduction list with initial experiences can be found in THIS thread
Discussion about the first long-haul services and experiences can be found in another THREAD
Links to many trip reports can be found in https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finn...ion-links.html.
Finnair A350 XWB master thread
Jan 21, 17, 3:19 pm
#799
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Join Date: May 2011
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Finnish public service broadcasting company Yle reports that Finnair is planning to switch some of the ordered A350-900 planes to A350-1000s.
...
http://yle.fi/uutiset/3-9401435
...
http://yle.fi/uutiset/3-9401435
Bird no 8,9 and 10 is already on final assembly and I doubt they can change no 11 either.
So if they are changing any order, it is from the second order lot, for bird 12-19. But this order was finalized as late as 2 years ago, so why this "sudden" change of mind?
The only change I can see is that A35K now actually has flown, and the back log on A35K is "only" 211 planes. If they will be assembled on a different line from A359, then perhaps A35K has better slot availability?
Heatsink had a compelling argument regarding the non-issue of fragmentation so I am going to go with that. I can see they'd love the A35K for cargo capacity but still unconvinced about the need for increased pax capacity.
Jan 21, 17, 3:34 pm
#800
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One of the hobbyists tracking A350 production though is saying OH-LWI (bird no 9) is getting "New configuration".
If this is similar to the A330 lineup, where a few birds were configured "high-density" with fewer J (no minicabin), then they are surely introducing the same fragmentation once again. With 2 HD birds out of 11, they will get into the same issues as before when swapping an A350 for another A350
If this is similar to the A330 lineup, where a few birds were configured "high-density" with fewer J (no minicabin), then they are surely introducing the same fragmentation once again. With 2 HD birds out of 11, they will get into the same issues as before when swapping an A350 for another A350
Jan 22, 17, 2:47 am
#801
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Plat (OWE)
Posts: 493
One of the hobbyists tracking A350 production though is saying OH-LWI (bird no 9) is getting "New configuration".
If this is similar to the A330 lineup, where a few birds were configured "high-density" with fewer J (no minicabin), then they are surely introducing the same fragmentation once again. With 2 HD birds out of 11, they will get into the same issues as before when swapping an A350 for another A350
If this is similar to the A330 lineup, where a few birds were configured "high-density" with fewer J (no minicabin), then they are surely introducing the same fragmentation once again. With 2 HD birds out of 11, they will get into the same issues as before when swapping an A350 for another A350
And next 2 or 3 birds after LWI will carry only 32J seats. I wrote about the fleet fragmentation too and consider it bad when swapping airplanes when cabin load factor is high.
Jan 22, 17, 3:35 am
#802
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Join Date: May 2011
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OK! I forgot about those posts!
With these inter-model variations there is indeed a fragmentation-problem. I have personally experienced this issue when swapping a 45J for a 32J - they showed no mercy bumping J pax to the back of the bus, refusing to rebook on other flights with J seats.
One must wonder about the -1000 rumour though, when they already ordered high density 359. Because then they will already have 350 pax capacity planes, what would A35K offer? Even if they went for a HD version of A35K, both versions max out at 440 pax (I guess evacuation sets the hard limit)
With these inter-model variations there is indeed a fragmentation-problem. I have personally experienced this issue when swapping a 45J for a 32J - they showed no mercy bumping J pax to the back of the bus, refusing to rebook on other flights with J seats.
One must wonder about the -1000 rumour though, when they already ordered high density 359. Because then they will already have 350 pax capacity planes, what would A35K offer? Even if they went for a HD version of A35K, both versions max out at 440 pax (I guess evacuation sets the hard limit)
Jan 22, 17, 3:42 am
#803
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LWI will be in 32J/300+ configuration as I wrote in my post #767 upthread, similar to three A330 tails in AY fleet.
And next 2 or 3 birds after LWI will carry only 32J seats. I wrote about the fleet fragmentation too and consider it bad when swapping airplanes when cabin load factor is high.
And next 2 or 3 birds after LWI will carry only 32J seats. I wrote about the fleet fragmentation too and consider it bad when swapping airplanes when cabin load factor is high.
Jan 22, 17, 4:56 am
#804
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: AY Platinum
Posts: 287
I'm not sure we can draw conclusions about the A35K based on the second A359 configuration.
The latter is done because some routes are more economy-heavy and some more business-heavy. The former would be needed for routes where demand would justify growing either cabin even more.
I agree that having different configurations fragments the fleet further. However, we should keep in mind that this kind of fragmentation is 100% intentional, as the aircraft is otherwise identical. It will be more difficult to swap broken aircraft, but it will also be easier to swap aircraft when they want to. For example if an economy-heavy destination suddenly has an unexpected surge in business class demand.
The latter is done because some routes are more economy-heavy and some more business-heavy. The former would be needed for routes where demand would justify growing either cabin even more.
I agree that having different configurations fragments the fleet further. However, we should keep in mind that this kind of fragmentation is 100% intentional, as the aircraft is otherwise identical. It will be more difficult to swap broken aircraft, but it will also be easier to swap aircraft when they want to. For example if an economy-heavy destination suddenly has an unexpected surge in business class demand.
Jan 22, 17, 7:21 am
#805
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True. But they have other means to meet route-based demand variations.
The obvious one would be price - working more dynamically with pricing J/Y can overcome some of the "skewed" demand on their leisure routes. They do this to some extent, but not nearly as much as is needed to optimize fleet usage. Instead they oversell Y and give away J seats. And it happens on J/32 configs aswell.
Another one would be the flex-cabin concept they bought from Airbus. This allows them to re-configure the cabin "on-the-fly", replacing J with Y seats. I believe they bought this option not only for A350 but for A330 aswell. But has anyone ever seen them using it? No.
In theory, having different versions of the same aircraft where capacity varies gives the airline some flexibility and options to schedule "the right" supply for the fluctuating demand, in practice I don't know if it can be made to work. Other operational factors might decrease the flexibility to near zero, especially for a small airline.
Take a look at CX, the king of aircraft swaps. Despite their fleet size, you can still get hilarious effects, like flying a 4-class B777-300ER on the 30 minute flight HKG-CAN because that was the aircraft they had at hand.
And the worst inefficiency would be to keep aircraft on the ground. So AY will use 100% of their fleet every day. So the J/32 are going to get used every day regardless if there are any routes that has super high Y demand or not.
The obvious one would be price - working more dynamically with pricing J/Y can overcome some of the "skewed" demand on their leisure routes. They do this to some extent, but not nearly as much as is needed to optimize fleet usage. Instead they oversell Y and give away J seats. And it happens on J/32 configs aswell.
Another one would be the flex-cabin concept they bought from Airbus. This allows them to re-configure the cabin "on-the-fly", replacing J with Y seats. I believe they bought this option not only for A350 but for A330 aswell. But has anyone ever seen them using it? No.
In theory, having different versions of the same aircraft where capacity varies gives the airline some flexibility and options to schedule "the right" supply for the fluctuating demand, in practice I don't know if it can be made to work. Other operational factors might decrease the flexibility to near zero, especially for a small airline.
Take a look at CX, the king of aircraft swaps. Despite their fleet size, you can still get hilarious effects, like flying a 4-class B777-300ER on the 30 minute flight HKG-CAN because that was the aircraft they had at hand.
And the worst inefficiency would be to keep aircraft on the ground. So AY will use 100% of their fleet every day. So the J/32 are going to get used every day regardless if there are any routes that has super high Y demand or not.
Jan 24, 17, 5:06 am
#806
Join Date: Oct 2015
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More Y-rows between exits 2 and 3 and first 5 rows Economy Comfort, similar to current seat layout.
Personally I think all this speculation about AY ordering A350-1000 is just intentionally increased media bandwidth BS.
They have communicated about the possibility to change the option for later deliveries, nothing else.
I may be proven wrong, of course.
Jan 24, 17, 6:09 am
#807
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What is fascinating though is with what energy everyone is talking about squeezing more and more seats on planes. Airbus tries to sell their planes as the more comfortable option (i.e. 'min 18" width'), but it seems clear that all airlines are asking for are more seats.
I just read the latest Airbus' FAST magazine which is an A380 special edition. While they do talk about A380 being a preferred choice for customer and selling at 1,5% higher ticket prices compared to a B777 on the same route, there is a section called "Capability and profitability enhancements" where it is all about squeezing more in.
Thinner wall panels allows for 11 abreast, and removal of flight crew rest area for more passenger seats are a few of the options.
Jan 24, 17, 6:32 am
#808
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Like this one.
Airbus: "You can make 9,6M USD extra each year for each A380 you own if you just add our 5 options. We'll squeeze 57 more seats in, and even if you only sell 50% of the new capacity, there still is 10 million new dollars to make."
Airbus: "You can make 9,6M USD extra each year for each A380 you own if you just add our 5 options. We'll squeeze 57 more seats in, and even if you only sell 50% of the new capacity, there still is 10 million new dollars to make."
Jan 24, 17, 7:25 am
#810
Join Date: Sep 2005
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I said it when the first A350 came, and I'll say it again. It's just a matter of time before AY introduces a 10-wide configuration in Y.
And no, it's not a rumour. It's my personal thinking only. Let's hope I'm wrong.
Try googling a350 10 abreast ...
And no, it's not a rumour. It's my personal thinking only. Let's hope I'm wrong.
Try googling a350 10 abreast ...
