Nov 4, 2015, 9:05 am
Last edit by: OH-LGG
Finnair (AY) company website dedicated for A350 fleet can be found HERE
!!
bold= new cabin
!!
A350 Deliveries
OH-LWA (msn 18) delivered 7th Oct 2015 is the first Finnair A350 and started long-haul operations as AY57 to PVG on 21st Nov 2015.
OH-LWB (msn 19) was delivered 14th Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 19th Dec 2015.
OH-LWC (msn 20) was delivered 31st Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jan 2016.
OH-LWD (msn 22) was delivered 25th Mar 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 28th Mar 2016.
OH-LWE (msn 23) was delivered 29th Apr 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 1st May 2016
OH-LWF (msn 28) was delivered 25th Jun 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 27th Jun 2016
OH-LWG (msn 51) was delivered 29th Sep 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 30th Sep 2016
OH-LWH (msn 97) was delivered 04th Apr 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Apr 2017
OH-LWI (msn 104) was delivered 02nd Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Jun 2017
OH-LWK (msn 113) was delivered 30th Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jul 2017
OH-LWL (msn 134) was delivered on 22th Sep 2017, started as AY 831 to LHR on 27th Sep 2017 and started longhauls on 29th Sep 2017 as AY89 to BKK.
OH-LWM (msn 264) was delivered on 13th Dec 2018, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 19th Dec 2018
OH-LWN (msn 273) was delivered on 13th Feb 2019, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 16th Feb 2019
OH-LWO (msn 300) was delivered on 26th Apr 2019, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 29th Apr 2019
OH-LWP (msn 392) was delivered on 10th Feb 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 13th Feb 2020
OH-LWR (msn 410) was delivered on 1st Sep 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 8th Sep 2020
OH-LWS (msn 516) was delivered on 29th Dec 2021, started long haul operations as AY87 to PVG (cargo only) on 24th Jan 2022, first pax service on 28th Feb 2022 as AY9
Seating
2 different configurations exists.
J/46 Y/251: Features 2 J cabins. First 8 birds and 12th(LWA-LWH, LWM) has this config
J/32 Y/304: The minicabin is removed and replaced with Y seating. Babycots in 1L and 41L. Birds 9-11, 13, 15 (LWI-LWL, LWN, LWP) has this config, a.k.a. marsuhäkki config.
Complete seatmap and layout of config 1 can be found HERE and config 2 is here.
Business Class features Zodiac Cirrus III full-flat bed seats in a 1-2-1 abreast config, all seats with direct access to the aisle. Config1 has two business class cabins, row1-8 and 9-12, while config2 only has one (row 1-8). Early reviews has preferred front cabin over minicabin, and for best window seat, row 2 or 1 may be preferable, row 1 for aisle seats.
As operations of A350 has matured, it has become practice to set the snack-bar on top of the cupboard in front of row 1, making row 1 experience a lot of foot traffic and noise.
Config2 also suffers from low toilet/pax quota (2 toilets / 32 pax) as the aft toilets has been assigned to the high density Y cabin, further contributing to high foot traffic in the front of the cabin. For these reasons, a seat further to the back may be preferable. However, all service start in the front and it will usually take a long time to get your meal in row 8.
For couples travelling together there is no clear choice. DH-seats are tilted towards each-other, but you still will not see the other person without leaning forwards. Seat across aisles (AD and HL respectively) has no barriers between them, but are tilted the wrong way and rows are also slightly misaligned.
Economy Comfort on A350 has the exact same seats as in economy, but with ≈4" inches more legroom. They also come with noise cancelling headphones, 1h internet, priority boarding and a small amenity kit.
Finnair platinums and OWE members can select these seats for free. (OWE must call to do so). Other passengers can select comfort seats for a fee, and seats are also sold after boarding.
On config1 comfort is row 21-25, while on config 2 comfort is row 21-24 + 25ABC and 25JKL. Row 21 is bulkhead and has slightly more space, as no seat reclines into the space. None of the configs has that super-space found on some retrofitted A330 though.
On config1 21AC and 21JL are the only paired seats making them preferable, but if you want to have IFE screen in the seat in front of you, pick row 22. On config2 all seats are in groups of 3, and it is also recommended to stay away from row 21 entirely, as it is entangled with the toilets.
In terms of space there are no seats in comfort cabin on either config that beats exit row 41A/C/J/L or 42A/L.
Economy Class features 3-3-3 abreast slimline seating with 32" pitch. The best seats are row 41 with most legroom on A/C/J/L (but they lack window), and row 42 A/L.
These are either labled "extra legroom" or "exit row" and are selectable with status or for a fee.
Economy cabin offers USB for charge - no AC outlets.
In-Flight Entertainment
IFE system is upgraded. Bigger screens, wider selection of movies and music, route mapper and control options. You can watch a movie from start to landing. You will have Bose noise-cancelling earphones in business class and in Economy comfort, and earplugs in economy class.
Wifi: you will see a code (in business class) in the screen when you open the IFE and select language. In economy class, you need to ask cabin crew for a voucher code if you are OWS/OWE, otherwise it costs you 7,95€ per hour, 11,95€ per three hours or 19,95€ for the whole flight. It may take some time until up in the air to get it started. Log in is required, once you have created an account and password, the system will recognize you next time.
Quality issues and early refurbishment
The seats in business class have had many quality issues from day one. Apart from some inherent problems with the seat design, there are also malfunctions and abnormal wear.
As every row has slightly different pitch, fittings and trimmings have had to de adopted manually. Apart from causing delays in delivery, this also has led to many things in the cabin tend to come loose, to squeak and to break.
In june 2017 it was announced that Airbus has accepted responsibility for the quality issues and will replace every seat on every plane delivered until that point in time (9 birds).
The refurbish will take place during the first round of major maintenance round, scheduled to start later this year.
There is no information if there will be any changes made at the same time (addressing complaints about cramped seats and missing stowage space for example), but most likely this is treated as a warranty action and so cabin will be equipped with the exact same seats and layout, albeit with a newer batch of seats.
More details and discussion:
FAM (Familiarization) flights were ongoing within European destinations until the first A350 aircraft was put on regular long-haul service on 21st November 2015. Here is a list of FAM flights quoted by a FT'er.
The "famous" introduction list with initial experiences can be found in THIS thread
Discussion about the first long-haul services and experiences can be found in another THREAD
Links to many trip reports can be found in https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finn...ion-links.html.
!!
bold= new cabin
!!
A350 Deliveries
OH-LWA (msn 18) delivered 7th Oct 2015 is the first Finnair A350 and started long-haul operations as AY57 to PVG on 21st Nov 2015.
OH-LWB (msn 19) was delivered 14th Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 19th Dec 2015.
OH-LWC (msn 20) was delivered 31st Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jan 2016.
OH-LWD (msn 22) was delivered 25th Mar 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 28th Mar 2016.
OH-LWE (msn 23) was delivered 29th Apr 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 1st May 2016
OH-LWF (msn 28) was delivered 25th Jun 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 27th Jun 2016
OH-LWG (msn 51) was delivered 29th Sep 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 30th Sep 2016
OH-LWH (msn 97) was delivered 04th Apr 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Apr 2017
OH-LWI (msn 104) was delivered 02nd Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Jun 2017
OH-LWK (msn 113) was delivered 30th Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jul 2017
OH-LWL (msn 134) was delivered on 22th Sep 2017, started as AY 831 to LHR on 27th Sep 2017 and started longhauls on 29th Sep 2017 as AY89 to BKK.
OH-LWM (msn 264) was delivered on 13th Dec 2018, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 19th Dec 2018
OH-LWN (msn 273) was delivered on 13th Feb 2019, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 16th Feb 2019
OH-LWO (msn 300) was delivered on 26th Apr 2019, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 29th Apr 2019
OH-LWP (msn 392) was delivered on 10th Feb 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 13th Feb 2020
OH-LWR (msn 410) was delivered on 1st Sep 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 8th Sep 2020
OH-LWS (msn 516) was delivered on 29th Dec 2021, started long haul operations as AY87 to PVG (cargo only) on 24th Jan 2022, first pax service on 28th Feb 2022 as AY9
Seating
2 different configurations exists.
J/46 Y/251: Features 2 J cabins. First 8 birds and 12th(LWA-LWH, LWM) has this config
J/32 Y/304: The minicabin is removed and replaced with Y seating. Babycots in 1L and 41L. Birds 9-11, 13, 15 (LWI-LWL, LWN, LWP) has this config, a.k.a. marsuhäkki config.
Complete seatmap and layout of config 1 can be found HERE and config 2 is here.
Business Class features Zodiac Cirrus III full-flat bed seats in a 1-2-1 abreast config, all seats with direct access to the aisle. Config1 has two business class cabins, row1-8 and 9-12, while config2 only has one (row 1-8). Early reviews has preferred front cabin over minicabin, and for best window seat, row 2 or 1 may be preferable, row 1 for aisle seats.
As operations of A350 has matured, it has become practice to set the snack-bar on top of the cupboard in front of row 1, making row 1 experience a lot of foot traffic and noise.
Config2 also suffers from low toilet/pax quota (2 toilets / 32 pax) as the aft toilets has been assigned to the high density Y cabin, further contributing to high foot traffic in the front of the cabin. For these reasons, a seat further to the back may be preferable. However, all service start in the front and it will usually take a long time to get your meal in row 8.
For couples travelling together there is no clear choice. DH-seats are tilted towards each-other, but you still will not see the other person without leaning forwards. Seat across aisles (AD and HL respectively) has no barriers between them, but are tilted the wrong way and rows are also slightly misaligned.
Economy Comfort on A350 has the exact same seats as in economy, but with ≈4" inches more legroom. They also come with noise cancelling headphones, 1h internet, priority boarding and a small amenity kit.
Finnair platinums and OWE members can select these seats for free. (OWE must call to do so). Other passengers can select comfort seats for a fee, and seats are also sold after boarding.
On config1 comfort is row 21-25, while on config 2 comfort is row 21-24 + 25ABC and 25JKL. Row 21 is bulkhead and has slightly more space, as no seat reclines into the space. None of the configs has that super-space found on some retrofitted A330 though.
On config1 21AC and 21JL are the only paired seats making them preferable, but if you want to have IFE screen in the seat in front of you, pick row 22. On config2 all seats are in groups of 3, and it is also recommended to stay away from row 21 entirely, as it is entangled with the toilets.
In terms of space there are no seats in comfort cabin on either config that beats exit row 41A/C/J/L or 42A/L.
Economy Class features 3-3-3 abreast slimline seating with 32" pitch. The best seats are row 41 with most legroom on A/C/J/L (but they lack window), and row 42 A/L.
These are either labled "extra legroom" or "exit row" and are selectable with status or for a fee.
Economy cabin offers USB for charge - no AC outlets.
In-Flight Entertainment
IFE system is upgraded. Bigger screens, wider selection of movies and music, route mapper and control options. You can watch a movie from start to landing. You will have Bose noise-cancelling earphones in business class and in Economy comfort, and earplugs in economy class.
Wifi: you will see a code (in business class) in the screen when you open the IFE and select language. In economy class, you need to ask cabin crew for a voucher code if you are OWS/OWE, otherwise it costs you 7,95€ per hour, 11,95€ per three hours or 19,95€ for the whole flight. It may take some time until up in the air to get it started. Log in is required, once you have created an account and password, the system will recognize you next time.
Quality issues and early refurbishment
The seats in business class have had many quality issues from day one. Apart from some inherent problems with the seat design, there are also malfunctions and abnormal wear.
As every row has slightly different pitch, fittings and trimmings have had to de adopted manually. Apart from causing delays in delivery, this also has led to many things in the cabin tend to come loose, to squeak and to break.
In june 2017 it was announced that Airbus has accepted responsibility for the quality issues and will replace every seat on every plane delivered until that point in time (9 birds).
The refurbish will take place during the first round of major maintenance round, scheduled to start later this year.
There is no information if there will be any changes made at the same time (addressing complaints about cramped seats and missing stowage space for example), but most likely this is treated as a warranty action and so cabin will be equipped with the exact same seats and layout, albeit with a newer batch of seats.
More details and discussion:
FAM (Familiarization) flights were ongoing within European destinations until the first A350 aircraft was put on regular long-haul service on 21st November 2015. Here is a list of FAM flights quoted by a FT'er.
The "famous" introduction list with initial experiences can be found in THIS thread
Discussion about the first long-haul services and experiences can be found in another THREAD
Links to many trip reports can be found in https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finn...ion-links.html.
Finnair A350 XWB master thread
Jan 15, 2017, 5:16 am
#782
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Plat and several other cards
Posts: 645
I wouldn't call the A330s very old, the airframes are only 6-7 years old. The J cabin is still decent J hard product, though in some planes the age starts showing, and it has nothing to do with economy comfort or premium economy, with any airline.
Jan 15, 2017, 5:30 am
#784
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sweden
Programs: Marriott Platinum - LT Gold
Posts: 688
Last edited by joakgarp; Jan 15, 2017 at 5:35 am
Jan 15, 2017, 5:53 am
#785
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,169
Any news on the upgrade to A350 to Japan from Helsinki? Planning an upgrade to Business next year to Tokyo using my valuable points but I'm not spending those if Finnair's keeping their very old A330 and the same interior. Just look at this. Should have been Economy Comfort.
The A350 isn't so much better compared to other Airlines business product but way better than a330 at least.
Been on a330 twice now to Tokyo and Nagoya, 2015 and 2016 and Finnair to Japan needs an upgrade asap. Bit tired of it tbh but I'm kind of stuck with Finnair because they are only 12h from Sweden to Japan. Sas is 13-14h.
The A350 isn't so much better compared to other Airlines business product but way better than a330 at least.
Been on a330 twice now to Tokyo and Nagoya, 2015 and 2016 and Finnair to Japan needs an upgrade asap. Bit tired of it tbh but I'm kind of stuck with Finnair because they are only 12h from Sweden to Japan. Sas is 13-14h.
As for Finnair A330 cabin it is by no means inferior to A350. A bit more noisy and dry, but seatwise I prefer it over A350. By calling it econ comfort I think you will be disappointed by most airlines business class and you should consider flying first instead.
Jan 15, 2017, 1:38 pm
#786
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: AY Gold
Posts: 596
I agree the A333 cabins look a bit tired but they will get a face lift.
Personally I prefer the A350 J-cabin, the only (major) thing is the seat in a bed position, feels cramped if you are tall. I wonder if they have plans to do something about that, they must have received a lot of negative feedback. The IFE is much better on A350, very responsive screen, the nose & belly cameras are great.
Personally I prefer the A350 J-cabin, the only (major) thing is the seat in a bed position, feels cramped if you are tall. I wonder if they have plans to do something about that, they must have received a lot of negative feedback. The IFE is much better on A350, very responsive screen, the nose & belly cameras are great.
Last edited by Andaman; Jan 15, 2017 at 1:59 pm
Jan 15, 2017, 11:30 pm
#787
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: try to stay home
Programs: AY, M&M, BAEC ...and don t care of status anymore
Posts: 2,041
I agree the A333 cabins look a bit tired but they will get a face lift.
Personally I prefer the A350 J-cabin, the only (major) thing is the seat in a bed position, feels cramped if you are tall. I wonder if they have plans to do something about that, they must have received a lot of negative feedback. The IFE is much better on A350, very responsive screen, the nose & belly cameras are great.
Personally I prefer the A350 J-cabin, the only (major) thing is the seat in a bed position, feels cramped if you are tall. I wonder if they have plans to do something about that, they must have received a lot of negative feedback. The IFE is much better on A350, very responsive screen, the nose & belly cameras are great.
Calling the A 330 J cabin "premium eco" on the other won t give you many options to book a business class seat - most of them are not any better as far as I can compare - been on BA, LH, AF, EK, IB, LX, OS, RJ, TG recently, and they all more or less in the same class.
Jan 16, 2017, 2:13 am
#788
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: AY Gold
Posts: 596
Jan 16, 2017, 2:20 am
#789
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: try to stay home
Programs: AY, M&M, BAEC ...and don t care of status anymore
Posts: 2,041
Also if you travel with a partner the A 350 is not a good choice since you barley can talk to each other.
I hope that the upgrade for the A333 is only very very modest.
Jan 16, 2017, 2:27 am
#790
Join Date: May 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat (OWE), SK EBG (*A Gold), KQ Plat (STE+), Accor Plat
Posts: 3,157
Jan 16, 2017, 3:45 am
#791
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 286
Sure the nose and belly camera make it a better product - if comfort and sleep is not your reason to fly J class. Comfort wise the A 330 beats the A 350 - no question.
Calling the A 330 J cabin "premium eco" on the other won t give you many options to book a business class seat -
Calling the A 330 J cabin "premium eco" on the other won t give you many options to book a business class seat -
Jan 16, 2017, 5:21 am
#792
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,743
I mostly travel by myself, but now I have an upcoming A350 flight in J where there's two of us travelling. Those of you who have done this, is it really better to book two aisles (AD or HL) than to book the DH centre seats?
Jan 16, 2017, 7:27 am
#793
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Gold (OWS)
Posts: 528
You do need to (awkwardly) lean forward to have a discussion on the DH centre seats. My SO and I had two aisle seats (3A/4A) on our outbound flight and two centre seats (6D/H) on our inbound flight. If I were to book again, I would book two aisle seats.
Jan 16, 2017, 8:13 am
#794
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Helsinki
Programs: AY Platinum, IHG Gold, Diners
Posts: 1,276
Just as a data point. I am only 174cm and slept
quite well on the A350. But I did also notice that the seat would have been cramped if I was any taller. Good to be short, for once!
quite well on the A350. But I did also notice that the seat would have been cramped if I was any taller. Good to be short, for once!
Jan 16, 2017, 10:00 am
#795
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: try to stay home
Programs: AY, M&M, BAEC ...and don t care of status anymore
Posts: 2,041
Actual non of the options are perfect, a simple and easy conversation is not possible, the best you can do in my opinion is a combination of window an aisle, but the aisle seat has to be one row behind the window seat i.e. 3A and 4D - but this far away from perfect.