The Finnair höpö-höpö (nonsense) thread
#3106
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TG677 ended up avoiding China after going over Taiwan. I was talking to an Air Japan pilot on the topic, they have a number of operational restrictions, but if the Japanese carriers have more, or it was all could be open to interpretation. He sated as general affairs
Last edited by CPH-Flyer; Dec 31, 2018 at 7:48 am
#3107
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Does anyone know if a more direct corridor to HKG and TPE exists in the Chinese airspace? Is it only 30% of Chinese airspace, that is available for civil aviation?
#3108
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AY does the same on flights to HKG. With that detour, seems they cannot turn around in TPE and return to HEL within 24 hours, which has been important for Finnair in their Asia operations.
Does anyone know if a more direct corridor to HKG and TPE exists in the Chinese airspace? Is it only 30% of Chinese airspace, that is available for civil aviation?
Does anyone know if a more direct corridor to HKG and TPE exists in the Chinese airspace? Is it only 30% of Chinese airspace, that is available for civil aviation?
#3109
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Now 20 planes in fleet ad more to come giving more flexibility with long haul schedules and 24hrs return not so important.
#3110
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Purely guessing, but the detour for this AF is doing indicates that there is no handover between Taiwaneese and Chinese air traffic controller. That seems like a typical thing for CN to do. But if the taiwaneese hands over the aircraft to HK, then all is OK and problem solved. No one loses face.
#3111
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#3112
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To have a destination with, say, a 28-hour turnaround, would be a lot more costly. Even if you could rotate aircraft so that you can still fly two longhaul legs with every plane within 24 hours, you'd lose those connections.
#3114
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I'm glad those flights exist because it creates a lot more leeway at HEL when something goes wrong with one of the widebodies. They have spare planes, so to say, and when the fleet increases, of course the economics of those spares get better. There are probably other factors, too, like slot restrictions and maintenance time. Moreover, this pattern seems to give us some shorthaul flights on widebodies, which is much appreciated.
But I can't help thinking that those "AY143/144 planes" could make 14 weekly roundtrips to BKK instead of only 7.
But I can't help thinking that those "AY143/144 planes" could make 14 weekly roundtrips to BKK instead of only 7.
#3115
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#3116
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The direct is just for comparison. The HEL-HKG-TPE (approximation of the AF detour) is 8,5% longer than direct GC route. The northern detour is +25%. Give and take some route anomlies, HKG detour is still considerably shorter.
#3117
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With the A330's getting older I believe AY is going add more of these 48 hour rotations. The capex on the planes is getting so low that it's not a big thing that the planes are idle for 50% of the time. With 8 A330's AY could have 4 of these destinations with daily flights - and if there's demand for more, used A330's can be always leased or bought. Commercially, the departure and arrival times would be good, so I believe AY could support a second daily to many destinations in this bank. With KIX, they are already testing how it would work in the Japanese market. TYO would be a natural move in 2020, when as a part of the Tokyo Olympic Games there will be additional slots in HND and the night curfew in NRT will be shortened.
I don't see more 48 hour rotations happening with the A359's as the lease cost of one plane is around $1M a month. It's just too much to make it profitable.
#3118
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There are not many routes in south China you are allowed to use for commercial traffic: https://skyvector.com/?ll=25.0697222...art=302&zoom=2
AY doesn't own the A330 anymore, so they have lease payments on them regardless of age. 50% utilization is deathly for any fleet... some places the aircraft of most airlines stays on the ground because an immediate turnaround would mean that it would arrive outside of the waves into the hub and not connect in convenient times. Also some markets won't accept day flights for example.
AY doesn't own the A330 anymore, so they have lease payments on them regardless of age. 50% utilization is deathly for any fleet... some places the aircraft of most airlines stays on the ground because an immediate turnaround would mean that it would arrive outside of the waves into the hub and not connect in convenient times. Also some markets won't accept day flights for example.
#3119
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It's not the number of planes but the geographical location that gives Finnair the strategic benefit of a 24 or less hours rotation on Asian routes.
You don't add planes so that they can stay more on the ground if that's what flexibility means here.
Here:
Finnair Strategy
Finnair is the only European airline that can operate flights to most Asian destinations on a 24-hour aircraft rotation, which means that the routes can be operated as round trips within 24 hours at regular times using a single aircraft. This enables a record-high utilisation rate in long-haul traffic, reduces the need for additional crews in compliance with flight time restrictions, and decreases fuel consumption and emissions due to shorter flight times.
#3120
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The A330 48-hour Asian rotation could work out nicely if AY had some sensible use for the planes while they're resting at HEL. We've seen AY add widebody flights to LHR, BRU, AGP and DXB. I believe LHR and BRU are motivated foremost by cargo, and they're business-heavy destinations, so most likely they can fill the J cabin with paying pax. AGP is very occasional (think school holidays) and the few reports I've heard, J stays mostly empty. DXB is probably more related to competing with FlyDubai than anything else.
AY wouldn't have difficulties filling those A330s to the brim to destinations like FCO or BCN in the summer. To some of the popular summer destinations, they fly two narrowbodies within an hour of each other. But these destinations are not J heavy, and to operate a widebody is more costly per pax than a narrowbody. Moreover, two narrowbodies offer more Y capacity than one A330.
If it wasn't for connections, AY could fly daytime to DEL with that "BKK plane". That would surely beat the short redeye flight, but nobody is reaching HEL in time for an 8 am departure to India...
AY wouldn't have difficulties filling those A330s to the brim to destinations like FCO or BCN in the summer. To some of the popular summer destinations, they fly two narrowbodies within an hour of each other. But these destinations are not J heavy, and to operate a widebody is more costly per pax than a narrowbody. Moreover, two narrowbodies offer more Y capacity than one A330.
If it wasn't for connections, AY could fly daytime to DEL with that "BKK plane". That would surely beat the short redeye flight, but nobody is reaching HEL in time for an 8 am departure to India...