Bidding for biz seats
#76
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Finland
Programs: AY Platinum,Marriott Gold,HH Diamond,Sixt Platinum,Hertz PC,AMEX Platinum
Posts: 1,946
True, logical. Originally I thought that they don't open the bidding for this type of route but I was surprised to see it open. Let's see how full it will be in the end. Any case the bidding fnishes rather early compared to the flight time so they likely balance this as a way to fill empty seats. Next step of course being targeted offers to catch some random points away.
Economy Comfort already almost full. I was also checking the baseline for future offers since previously I have never been successful with the bidding. Now I at least learned that the maximum bid doesn't necessarily lead to approval.
Economy Comfort already almost full. I was also checking the baseline for future offers since previously I have never been successful with the bidding. Now I at least learned that the maximum bid doesn't necessarily lead to approval.
Last edited by miikka; Mar 12, 2017 at 7:30 am
#78
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,083
Some possible reasons
- company policy
- C-Y > 2x600€
But wouldn't it be cheaper to buy the points and upgrade using them? Yes, I read there was no availability, but for a Plat it can quite possibly open up by calling CS
- company policy
- C-Y > 2x600€
But wouldn't it be cheaper to buy the points and upgrade using them? Yes, I read there was no availability, but for a Plat it can quite possibly open up by calling CS
Last edited by WilcoRoger; Mar 12, 2017 at 11:09 pm Reason: Typo in the price
#79
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,258
Yeah I get the company policy thing but why not just pay more directly to the TA and get a real J ticket if money is that loose (600 cash for OW upgrade is loose to me..). TAs could even get the ticket reissued as J within 24hrs even if originally ticketed as coach.
#81
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,083
Yeah I get the company policy thing but why not just pay more directly to the TA and get a real J ticket if money is that loose (600 cash for OW upgrade is loose to me..). TAs could even get the ticket reissued as J within 24hrs even if originally ticketed as coach.
#82
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Finland
Programs: AY Platinum,Marriott Gold,HH Diamond,Sixt Platinum,Hertz PC,AMEX Platinum
Posts: 1,946
It was partially a test, I have never been successful with my reasonable bids multiple times (each time it has been a bit on the high side but not maximum) and I wanted to see if it ever goes through. Since it is not binding (bid amount is binding if accepted) then I would be able to back out still if I would have been accepted.
And once again, I didn't pass the acceptance so I don't consider it very good tool for future cases where I would like to look for an upgrade. In the past (no experience for couple of years), similar system with SK worked pretty well, there I have had rather high success rate and with reasonable charges (plus they gave points per the upgraded class).
And yes, there is corporate policy of course which is keeping me back in the bus. Maybe I should have just waitlisted myself also for this flight (like one another which has been in the waitlist for past 3 weeks) and see if I get lucky that way. I have been a bit puzzling on the points side because there might be a need for those during summer.
TA approach is of course valid and good point, no experience how it in practice would work in my corporate TA environment. Sometimes they are rather clueless and sometimes not.
Edit: I just browsed AY website for J ticket for the route and correct dates. Business Saver is no longer available and Business is promoted as "2 seats left". Return flight would have Business Saver but priced together would hike the pricing to 4500 EUR. Explains why they are not going to allow upgrades to Business class this time.
It just puzzles me why it was open in the first place - maybe it is triggered automatically and only the actual decision is done by human. Maybe there was a short window when AY believed that they won't sell the Business class full and it got opened but the opportunity vanished rapidly.
And once again, I didn't pass the acceptance so I don't consider it very good tool for future cases where I would like to look for an upgrade. In the past (no experience for couple of years), similar system with SK worked pretty well, there I have had rather high success rate and with reasonable charges (plus they gave points per the upgraded class).
And yes, there is corporate policy of course which is keeping me back in the bus. Maybe I should have just waitlisted myself also for this flight (like one another which has been in the waitlist for past 3 weeks) and see if I get lucky that way. I have been a bit puzzling on the points side because there might be a need for those during summer.
TA approach is of course valid and good point, no experience how it in practice would work in my corporate TA environment. Sometimes they are rather clueless and sometimes not.
Edit: I just browsed AY website for J ticket for the route and correct dates. Business Saver is no longer available and Business is promoted as "2 seats left". Return flight would have Business Saver but priced together would hike the pricing to 4500 EUR. Explains why they are not going to allow upgrades to Business class this time.
It just puzzles me why it was open in the first place - maybe it is triggered automatically and only the actual decision is done by human. Maybe there was a short window when AY believed that they won't sell the Business class full and it got opened but the opportunity vanished rapidly.
Last edited by miikka; Mar 13, 2017 at 1:40 am
#83
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Platinum, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,132
Thanks for sharing the test result!
It is very odd that a maximum bid would not be accepted. My guess is that there wasn't any availability at the time of auction closing. I have a harder time believing more than 1 person bid maximum.
However, this is somewhat contradictory to other processes. There have been several reports where members are waitlisted for upgrade when AY at the same time is offering upgrade-for-cash on text-message. Since those are instantly accepted, it seems likely that AY reserves space for that process. So with logic, there should be reserved space also for bidding.
Then again, AY IT systems are not very consistent, illogical and pretty error prone. It might just be that the bidding process starts up automatically and does not check availability. And this problem is solved by programmer in the wrong end. When auction closes, the algorithm that chooses the winner has the availability check.
It is very odd that a maximum bid would not be accepted. My guess is that there wasn't any availability at the time of auction closing. I have a harder time believing more than 1 person bid maximum.
However, this is somewhat contradictory to other processes. There have been several reports where members are waitlisted for upgrade when AY at the same time is offering upgrade-for-cash on text-message. Since those are instantly accepted, it seems likely that AY reserves space for that process. So with logic, there should be reserved space also for bidding.
Then again, AY IT systems are not very consistent, illogical and pretty error prone. It might just be that the bidding process starts up automatically and does not check availability. And this problem is solved by programmer in the wrong end. When auction closes, the algorithm that chooses the winner has the availability check.
#84
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Finland
Programs: AY Platinum,Marriott Gold,HH Diamond,Sixt Platinum,Hertz PC,AMEX Platinum
Posts: 1,946
intuition, you got it absolutely correct. And this is what puzzles me - it isn't exactly easy to figure out which way would be the best way forward.
EF is now reporting that the availability in Business class has dramatically dropped after the weekend. So it is full.
Of course the situation lives all the time and AY need to choose the best way forward for the flight. But I was also trying to figure out how strong is the bidding process - let's say for situations that it is your only hope and you really would prefer to be upgraded. In my books, bidding is not so strong option so it is more like a fun game to see if they accept certain offer.
And just for the record, I might have actually taken that if I would have been accepted. Not about loose money but likely about me being stupid enough.
EF is now reporting that the availability in Business class has dramatically dropped after the weekend. So it is full.
Of course the situation lives all the time and AY need to choose the best way forward for the flight. But I was also trying to figure out how strong is the bidding process - let's say for situations that it is your only hope and you really would prefer to be upgraded. In my books, bidding is not so strong option so it is more like a fun game to see if they accept certain offer.
And just for the record, I might have actually taken that if I would have been accepted. Not about loose money but likely about me being stupid enough.
#88
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Finland
Programs: AY Platinum,Marriott Gold,HH Diamond,Sixt Platinum,Hertz PC,AMEX Platinum
Posts: 1,946
Bidding is still available, or was at least couple of weeks ago. I actually first time ever received approval for my bid but then I had to change my plans and cancel the AY flights before making the payment and go with BA flights.
#89
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HEL
Programs: AY GOLD, HH GOLD
Posts: 411
New to the AY upgrade game since just started the switch over from AA.
Do they open up the points upgrade availability at some point before departure even though it's now showing the X on the search tool?
I have also a bid in but I lowballed it so probably that one won't clear.
Oh and it's AY81 that we're talking about and it's showing J3 on EF.
Thanks already!
Do they open up the points upgrade availability at some point before departure even though it's now showing the X on the search tool?
I have also a bid in but I lowballed it so probably that one won't clear.
Oh and it's AY81 that we're talking about and it's showing J3 on EF.
Thanks already!
#90
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 280
New to the AY upgrade game since just started the switch over from AA.
Do they open up the points upgrade availability at some point before departure even though it's now showing the X on the search tool?
I have also a bid in but I lowballed it so probably that one won't clear.
Oh and it's AY81 that we're talking about and it's showing J3 on EF.
Thanks already!
Do they open up the points upgrade availability at some point before departure even though it's now showing the X on the search tool?
I have also a bid in but I lowballed it so probably that one won't clear.
Oh and it's AY81 that we're talking about and it's showing J3 on EF.
Thanks already!
There are several reports here that having AY status and/or calling CS periodically before departure may help it clear.