Courmisch

Hmm. Finnair says they are focused on Chinese growth in second tier cities. But in practice, they expanded service to Japan with Fukuoka (replacing KLM) in Japan, reportedly tried to expand service to South Korea. In the end, Canton is the only announced "new" destination in China, and it's really neither new nor second tier. Meanwhile, other European (or Chinese) airlines have already settled Hangzhou (KLM), Nanking (LH), Chengdu (BA), and I don't know what else.

Anyway, it is not so obvious that China will expand so much in the coming years. I am no expert in the economics of commercial aviation. But given the costs, I'd expect European airlines to suffer first, vs Chinese and Middle Eastern airlines if the Chinese market saturates.

nordic

AFAIK, The revenues from the non-stop MAD-HEL are shared by IAG, JL and AY. It should work like ATI so it does not really matter who operates the flight.

intuition

AFAIK, revenue is shared by capacity. If IAG flies planes between MAD-TYO with a low load factor, it is going to be AY that has to share revenue to subsidize IAG.

I may be wrong, but the way I've read the deal it matters very much who operates the flight. It might even be the reason why AY suddenly decided to put capacity to FUK when they earlier stated that japan was no longer of interest.

Courmisch

Err, is IBE included in the JV at all? I thought it was only initially BAW and JAL, later joined by FIN.

intuition

I thought I read somewhere they were, but can't find any proof of that now. Some sites says "it is believed" Iberia's japan flight will be under the joint venture.

heatsink

Yes! Finally! Being able to utilize the entire floor is going to make the terminal so much nicer.

Here's hoping they also realize that restaurant kitchens should be built against the rear wall rather than in front of the windows...

Courmisch

What? No! The shops should be on both sides, and even in the walking ways to maximize customers exposure and minimize travelers convenience

Ed Size

Do you have any doubts that they will do it different?

Courmisch

Yes, I do. The new way is to put the shops to the left, to the right... and upstairs.

heatsink

Modern shop placement is awful, yes, but the way they put the kitchens in front of the windows is just boneheaded.

Although I guess they could make even more money if they got rid of the restaurants entirely and replaced them with shops. That way people would be forced to buy onboard food too. Hmm...

nordic

At least Wuhan by AF, Xiamen by KLM and Xiamenair ,Qingdao (1 stop) by LH and Shenyang by LH and Chengdu even by KLM and CA, Hangzhou by Hainan.

intuition

I'm pretty sure we will see any additional floorspace utilized as shop-mazes.
I'm amazed they haven't invented gate-shopping yet. I mean, that is the area were you with 100% certainty know people will be for an extended amount of time with nothing to do. Remove all seats, install shelves. Replace boarding procedure with a cashier - they are after all checking boarding passes at the store - so why not promote some last minute shopping while queuing for boarding?



Anyway...
As for the "chinese secondary cities strategy" being vulnerable in down turn market, I'd say the bigger risk is the emerging domestic airline industry. 10 different Chinese airlines operates widebodies with a total fleet significantly larger than emirates' or twice the size of Cathay's... The threat towards AY's strategy is probably smaller Chinese airlines opening point-to-point flights from secondary cities to major European cities.
Last year Bejing Capital airlines opened direct flights PEK/HGH-CPH.
10 more of similar route initiatives and AY might end up as "that foreign airline that wasn't first in providing our city with European flights"

Hartsa

That would make more money for airlines not the airport.

heatsink

Yes, but they could negotiate a share of the profits in exchange. It's a win-win really. More shops and more fees in one move.

Jainzar

I just wonder what is going on here. Even AY is still serving free water/ coffee / tea / blueberry juice. So they earn no money on that on board. Remove it and the on board service is like DY? And if you are serious about it remove the lounges. Then finally all those metal guys will buy on board food. Is that what AY and HEL should be?