resentment against Finnair in India?
Aug 26, 2011, 1:21 pm
#1
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resentment against Finnair in India?
Please see below report extract from the Iimes of India It is causing some resentment against Finnair. Lots of people have Schengen visas on older passports (including myself) but we never faced any problems to date in France Germany Sweden Spain... Finland is entitled to its exceptionalism, but this pedantic (in my view) attitude causes pointless negative views about Finnair?
Posted here for your information and also responses/opinions. No acrimony intended.
Passport? Failport!Jug Suraiya
21 June 2011, 09:19 PM IST
When is a passport not a pass-port but a fail-port? When it's an Indian passport. Bunny and i discovered this when we recently tried to make a trip to Finland, which is aggressively marketing itself in India as a tourist destination. About to board the Finnair flight from Heathrow, London, to Helsinki, Bunny was stopped by an airline supervisor who said that Bunny's paperwork was not in order; she couldn't get on the plane. The passport was valid; the Schengen visa was valid. The problem? The visa, though valid, was not on the new passport but on the old passport, stapled onto the new one. Finnish immigration insisted that the visa must be on the passport in current use.
We protested that the US and the UK do not insist on this. Nor do other Schengen countries. Often passports have to be supplemented by new booklets as pages run out in the old one. The supervisor was adamant. Finland did not accept visas unless they were on the same passport booklet. In which case, as Finland was the exception to the Schengen rule, was it not the responsibility of Finnair, the national carrier, to inform passengers at the time of ticket sale?
But there were no arguments to be made. Bunny couldn't enter Finland, despite the fact that we had a return flight and prepaid hotel bookings in that country, all non-refundable. What was worse than the financial loss was the humiliation. Not a personal humiliation, but the humiliation of being an Indian citizen, holding an Indian passport. Because the real problem was Bunny's Indian passport, which immediately made her suspect as a potential illegal immigrant.
Posted here for your information and also responses/opinions. No acrimony intended.
Passport? Failport!Jug Suraiya
21 June 2011, 09:19 PM IST
When is a passport not a pass-port but a fail-port? When it's an Indian passport. Bunny and i discovered this when we recently tried to make a trip to Finland, which is aggressively marketing itself in India as a tourist destination. About to board the Finnair flight from Heathrow, London, to Helsinki, Bunny was stopped by an airline supervisor who said that Bunny's paperwork was not in order; she couldn't get on the plane. The passport was valid; the Schengen visa was valid. The problem? The visa, though valid, was not on the new passport but on the old passport, stapled onto the new one. Finnish immigration insisted that the visa must be on the passport in current use.
We protested that the US and the UK do not insist on this. Nor do other Schengen countries. Often passports have to be supplemented by new booklets as pages run out in the old one. The supervisor was adamant. Finland did not accept visas unless they were on the same passport booklet. In which case, as Finland was the exception to the Schengen rule, was it not the responsibility of Finnair, the national carrier, to inform passengers at the time of ticket sale?
But there were no arguments to be made. Bunny couldn't enter Finland, despite the fact that we had a return flight and prepaid hotel bookings in that country, all non-refundable. What was worse than the financial loss was the humiliation. Not a personal humiliation, but the humiliation of being an Indian citizen, holding an Indian passport. Because the real problem was Bunny's Indian passport, which immediately made her suspect as a potential illegal immigrant.
Aug 26, 2011, 1:44 pm
#2
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Please see below report extract from the Iimes of India It is causing some resentment against Finnair. Lots of people have Schengen visas on older passports (including myself) but we never faced any problems to date in France Germany Sweden Spain... Finland is entitled to its exceptionalism, but this pedantic (in my view) attitude causes pointless negative views about Finnair?
Posted here for your information and also responses/opinions. No acrimony intended.
Passport? Failport!Jug Suraiya
21 June 2011, 09:19 PM IST
When is a passport not a pass-port but a fail-port? When it's an Indian passport. Bunny and i discovered this when we recently tried to make a trip to Finland, which is aggressively marketing itself in India as a tourist destination. About to board the Finnair flight from Heathrow, London, to Helsinki, Bunny was stopped by an airline supervisor who said that Bunny's paperwork was not in order; she couldn't get on the plane. The passport was valid; the Schengen visa was valid. The problem? The visa, though valid, was not on the new passport but on the old passport, stapled onto the new one. Finnish immigration insisted that the visa must be on the passport in current use.
We protested that the US and the UK do not insist on this. Nor do other Schengen countries. Often passports have to be supplemented by new booklets as pages run out in the old one. The supervisor was adamant. Finland did not accept visas unless they were on the same passport booklet. In which case, as Finland was the exception to the Schengen rule, was it not the responsibility of Finnair, the national carrier, to inform passengers at the time of ticket sale?
But there were no arguments to be made. Bunny couldn't enter Finland, despite the fact that we had a return flight and prepaid hotel bookings in that country, all non-refundable. What was worse than the financial loss was the humiliation. Not a personal humiliation, but the humiliation of being an Indian citizen, holding an Indian passport. Because the real problem was Bunny's Indian passport, which immediately made her suspect as a potential illegal immigrant.
Posted here for your information and also responses/opinions. No acrimony intended.
Passport? Failport!Jug Suraiya
21 June 2011, 09:19 PM IST
When is a passport not a pass-port but a fail-port? When it's an Indian passport. Bunny and i discovered this when we recently tried to make a trip to Finland, which is aggressively marketing itself in India as a tourist destination. About to board the Finnair flight from Heathrow, London, to Helsinki, Bunny was stopped by an airline supervisor who said that Bunny's paperwork was not in order; she couldn't get on the plane. The passport was valid; the Schengen visa was valid. The problem? The visa, though valid, was not on the new passport but on the old passport, stapled onto the new one. Finnish immigration insisted that the visa must be on the passport in current use.
We protested that the US and the UK do not insist on this. Nor do other Schengen countries. Often passports have to be supplemented by new booklets as pages run out in the old one. The supervisor was adamant. Finland did not accept visas unless they were on the same passport booklet. In which case, as Finland was the exception to the Schengen rule, was it not the responsibility of Finnair, the national carrier, to inform passengers at the time of ticket sale?
But there were no arguments to be made. Bunny couldn't enter Finland, despite the fact that we had a return flight and prepaid hotel bookings in that country, all non-refundable. What was worse than the financial loss was the humiliation. Not a personal humiliation, but the humiliation of being an Indian citizen, holding an Indian passport. Because the real problem was Bunny's Indian passport, which immediately made her suspect as a potential illegal immigrant.
Then she was traveling without a valid schengen visa.
If she had 2 valid passports with other carrying the schengen visa, then the airline supervisor made a mistake, immigration would've let him in no problem. Many people carry multiple passports.
Aug 26, 2011, 1:54 pm
#3
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Hmm wait. She had an old passport that was no longer valid, but a valid visa there, and a new passport without a visa?
Then she was traveling without a valid schengen visa.
If she had 2 valid passports with other carrying the schengen visa, then the airline supervisor made a mistake, immigration would've let him in no problem. Many people carry multiple passports.
Then she was traveling without a valid schengen visa.
If she had 2 valid passports with other carrying the schengen visa, then the airline supervisor made a mistake, immigration would've let him in no problem. Many people carry multiple passports.
The interesting thing is that the Finnish embassy in new delhi has now issued a clarification (after all the fuss and resentment) saying that vaklid visas on expired passports will now be accepted as long as the pax is in possession of a valid passport and is carrying the expired passport with a valid visa! This has always been the case with other Schengen countries AFAIK (Ive used mine to enter Germany only last month)
I
Aug 26, 2011, 2:39 pm
#4
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No shewas the first case you write, above.
The interesting thing is that the Finnish embassy in new delhi has now issued a clarification (after all the fuss and resentment) saying that vaklid visas on expired passports will now be accepted as long as the pax is in possession of a valid passport and is carrying the expired passport with a valid visa! This has always been the case with other Schengen countries AFAIK (Ive used mine to enter Germany only last month)
I
The interesting thing is that the Finnish embassy in new delhi has now issued a clarification (after all the fuss and resentment) saying that vaklid visas on expired passports will now be accepted as long as the pax is in possession of a valid passport and is carrying the expired passport with a valid visa! This has always been the case with other Schengen countries AFAIK (Ive used mine to enter Germany only last month)
I
Aug 26, 2011, 2:42 pm
#5
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I think if you have a long term visa and you carry your passorts in conjunction its Ok for most countries. ANd I know its OK for USA and UK and recently Germany. I guess thats why the resentment is there in india, because people are used to travelling with long term visas on old passports..
Aug 26, 2011, 2:50 pm
#6
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I think if you have a long term visa and you carry your passorts in conjunction its Ok for most countries. ANd I know its OK for USA and UK and recently Germany. I guess thats why the resentment is there in india, because people are used to travelling with long term visas on old passports..
Aug 26, 2011, 3:10 pm
#7
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http://travel.state.gov/visa/questio...ns_1253.html#7
But for us Visa Waivers, ESTA is valid only as long as the passport is. I detect unfair treatment.
I understand OP's resentment towards the Finnish authorities' interpretation of Schengen rules, which apparently were in error, as evidenced by the Embassy's "clarification", but how exactly is this Finnair's fault?
Aug 26, 2011, 6:47 pm
#8
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Once a passport expires and a new passport from the same country is received. The old passport is invalid. ALL visas or other stamps that are still valid must be transferred by the individual to the new passport. This is the passenger's responsibility. Immigration matter pre-flight and not an issue AY can fix at check-in. You should have gone to the proper authority and had the visa transferred and get rid of your clipped original passport.
Please see below report extract from the Iimes of India It is causing some resentment against Finnair. Lots of people have Schengen visas on older passports (including myself) but we never faced any problems to date in France Germany Sweden Spain... Finland is entitled to its exceptionalism, but this pedantic (in my view) attitude causes pointless negative views about Finnair?
Posted here for your information and also responses/opinions. No acrimony intended.
Passport? Failport!Jug Suraiya
21 June 2011, 09:19 PM IST
When is a passport not a pass-port but a fail-port? When it's an Indian passport. Bunny and i discovered this when we recently tried to make a trip to Finland, which is aggressively marketing itself in India as a tourist destination. About to board the Finnair flight from Heathrow, London, to Helsinki, Bunny was stopped by an airline supervisor who said that Bunny's paperwork was not in order; she couldn't get on the plane. The passport was valid; the Schengen visa was valid. The problem? The visa, though valid, was not on the new passport but on the old passport, stapled onto the new one. Finnish immigration insisted that the visa must be on the passport in current use.
We protested that the US and the UK do not insist on this. Nor do other Schengen countries. Often passports have to be supplemented by new booklets as pages run out in the old one. The supervisor was adamant. Finland did not accept visas unless they were on the same passport booklet. In which case, as Finland was the exception to the Schengen rule, was it not the responsibility of Finnair, the national carrier, to inform passengers at the time of ticket sale?
But there were no arguments to be made. Bunny couldn't enter Finland, despite the fact that we had a return flight and prepaid hotel bookings in that country, all non-refundable. What was worse than the financial loss was the humiliation. Not a personal humiliation, but the humiliation of being an Indian citizen, holding an Indian passport. Because the real problem was Bunny's Indian passport, which immediately made her suspect as a potential illegal immigrant.
Posted here for your information and also responses/opinions. No acrimony intended.
Passport? Failport!Jug Suraiya
21 June 2011, 09:19 PM IST
When is a passport not a pass-port but a fail-port? When it's an Indian passport. Bunny and i discovered this when we recently tried to make a trip to Finland, which is aggressively marketing itself in India as a tourist destination. About to board the Finnair flight from Heathrow, London, to Helsinki, Bunny was stopped by an airline supervisor who said that Bunny's paperwork was not in order; she couldn't get on the plane. The passport was valid; the Schengen visa was valid. The problem? The visa, though valid, was not on the new passport but on the old passport, stapled onto the new one. Finnish immigration insisted that the visa must be on the passport in current use.
We protested that the US and the UK do not insist on this. Nor do other Schengen countries. Often passports have to be supplemented by new booklets as pages run out in the old one. The supervisor was adamant. Finland did not accept visas unless they were on the same passport booklet. In which case, as Finland was the exception to the Schengen rule, was it not the responsibility of Finnair, the national carrier, to inform passengers at the time of ticket sale?
But there were no arguments to be made. Bunny couldn't enter Finland, despite the fact that we had a return flight and prepaid hotel bookings in that country, all non-refundable. What was worse than the financial loss was the humiliation. Not a personal humiliation, but the humiliation of being an Indian citizen, holding an Indian passport. Because the real problem was Bunny's Indian passport, which immediately made her suspect as a potential illegal immigrant.
Aug 26, 2011, 7:38 pm
#9
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Aug 26, 2011, 7:39 pm
#10
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Apparently you can.
http://travel.state.gov/visa/questio...ns_1253.html#7
But for us Visa Waivers, ESTA is valid only as long as the passport is. I detect unfair treatment.
I understand OP's resentment towards the Finnish authorities' interpretation of Schengen rules, which apparently were in error, as evidenced by the Embassy's "clarification", but how exactly is this Finnair's fault?
http://travel.state.gov/visa/questio...ns_1253.html#7
But for us Visa Waivers, ESTA is valid only as long as the passport is. I detect unfair treatment.
I understand OP's resentment towards the Finnish authorities' interpretation of Schengen rules, which apparently were in error, as evidenced by the Embassy's "clarification", but how exactly is this Finnair's fault?
Aug 26, 2011, 7:43 pm
#11
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From my recent experience, India itself charges a fee to transfer an Indian Visa from an old passport to a new one. So I assume they require the same the Indians are criticizing the Finns for 
Aug 26, 2011, 7:47 pm
#12
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Once a passport expires and a new passport from the same country is received. The old passport is invalid. ALL visas or other stamps that are still valid must be transferred by the individual to the new passport. This is the passenger's responsibility. Immigration matter pre-flight and not an issue AY can fix at check-in. You should have gone to the proper authority and had the visa transferred and get rid of your clipped original passport.
it's sort of thing that hardly makes global friends...I don't know if you are speaking for AY or as an AY FTer in any capacity? It sounds like you are to me but I'm probably mistaken?
Last edited by rathin100; Aug 26, 2011 at 8:27 pm
Aug 26, 2011, 8:28 pm
#13
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Interesting point..... I'll check with India and get back on whether this is compulsory......
Aug 27, 2011, 2:39 am
#14
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Very few countries allow you to have 2 valid passports. Finland does. When my visas, that often are issued max for 1 year, often only for few months or even days, depending on the country, are expired, there is no way to transfer visas to an other passport. Tuff luck.
The fact is that a lot of people try to enter to schengen area from India with fake papers. Finland has always wanted to obey rules and regulations, therefore they check paper validity carefully. It is travellers responsibility to check what papers are needed, not assuming but checking, before departure.
The fact is that a lot of people try to enter to schengen area from India with fake papers. Finland has always wanted to obey rules and regulations, therefore they check paper validity carefully. It is travellers responsibility to check what papers are needed, not assuming but checking, before departure.
Aug 27, 2011, 9:19 pm
#15
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It seems there have been some issues with pax from DEL. The Helsinki Times in June:
"Finland is introducing new measures to combat illegal immigration and human trafficking from India. In July, the Finnish embassy in New Delhi will get a new staff member who will verify the authenticity of documents submitted by visa and residence permit applicants.
Illegal immigration from India to Finland is on the rise, and sometimes Finland is used as an entry point to Europe as a whole."
http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/f...rom-india.html
"Finland is introducing new measures to combat illegal immigration and human trafficking from India. In July, the Finnish embassy in New Delhi will get a new staff member who will verify the authenticity of documents submitted by visa and residence permit applicants.
Illegal immigration from India to Finland is on the rise, and sometimes Finland is used as an entry point to Europe as a whole."
http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/f...rom-india.html
Last edited by Andaman; Aug 27, 2011 at 9:40 pm