Adam1222

Thanks for your perspective.
I hope you and yours remain unafflicted by the damage casinos and gambling addiction brings to families across America.

Kagehitokiri

longhaul private jet trips could use EK private jet with 10 F suites

id consider charters for short hops, dont feel a need for longhaul

84fiero

So there's an event for gambling enthusiasts to learn about both maximizing their casino experiences and maximizing their travel miles/points experiences...and that means that the frequent flyer community is guilty of the same "sins" as casinos and is now a predatory industry? That's quite a stretch.

People with all sorts of interests also have an interest in travel and the miles/points game. For that matter, not everyone who gambles is or will become an addict, no different than with booze or other potentially unhealthy activities that are intertwined within the travel/miles world including here on FT? Hard to see how this seminar "proves" the industry is predatory.

Adam1222

No. I said that this additional seminar bolsters the notion that seminars are designed to "make money off the innocent" -- which was the title of this thread (and not a term I made up.)

If there was a "points and miles and payday loans" conference, "Points and miles and for-profit online schools" or a "points and miles and my pyramid scheme" conference I would make the same point.

"Gambling enthusiasts" = addicts. If there were a scientific literature explaining how travel loyalty programs manipulate poor people and biochemical responses, we could equate gambling and miles/points more generally. There is not. Casino loyalty programs are literally designed to send you into debt.

GUWonder

I am no casino gambler, and yet I've found some casino loyalty programs useful.

I have seen gambling enthusiasts who aren't addicts and others who are addicts -- much like I've seen wine enthusiasts and microbrew enthusiasts who aren't all alcoholics.

Adam1222

I appreciate this scientific analysis of gambling addiction and casino marketing. I assume you've also conducted brain scans of the dopamine responses of these "gambling enthusiasts" you refer to, who apparently have brains wired differently than all other humans.

Of course a conference aimed at casino goers has no relationship to the fact that you once got some points at Harrah's.
I have also seen a bearded lady and three toed sloths who can play the piano.

But, yes, I would have the same reaction if there was a "Miles and points and malt liquor frequent buyers club" conference. The existence of microbreweries isn't inherently regressive and predatory, unlike casinos, as explained in economic literature. See, e.g., http://business.uni.edu/web/pages/de...Fs/Rolling.pdf.

You've already made quite clear in responses to other things I've said that you think no corporate entity bears any responsibility for an individual customer's misfortune -- whether it be a credit card marketing firm that preys on ignorant customers or a casino that does the same. So the fact that you're purporting to respond to my points has little value. In your mind, the fact that an industry or corporation is predatory is meaningless.

GUWonder

The conclusion above is so detached from reality that it is amusing.

baccarat_king

Seems like yesterday that I suggested the Gaming Loyalty Programs forum on FT. I do try my best to participate whenever I can add something meaningful to the conversation.

The loyalty programs for Caesars Entertainment (formerly Harrah's) Total Rewards and MGM (Mlife) can be two of the most confusing programs in the loyalty sphere. Not to mention, they are now directly related to Wyndham Rewards (for Total Rewards) and World of Hyatt (for Mlife).

Mlife and Total Rewards are absolutely two of the largest loyalty/points programs in the world.

SkiAdcock

Getting back to the point of this thread (the gamblers or those talking about same can start a separate thread ), I don't think anyone who attends a travel seminar to learn more about points/miles is "innocent" per se & getting ripped off (the rip-off part was the point of the OP of this thread). They want to learn more about travel & points/miles & how best to utilize the opportunities.

This seminar (Chicago Seminar) will help them to do so. Other seminars (FTU) could/will do the same. Other seminars (FTU) seem to charge more & make it more of a profit center from what I can tell (and that's ok as long as it's disclosed).

This particular event (Chicago Seminars) is run by volunteers & the funds go to charity (via my selling raffle tickets and the contribution of funds after all bills are paid), but at the end the balance to the organizers of Chicago Seminars is zero ($0). Chicago Seminars is a once/year event & not intended to become a multi-city for profit event.

However, (getting back to my original point), I don't think people who are willing to spend the time/travel $$ to attend any seminar event are "innocent". And I would say to them (and have) what I would say to anyone. Do your due diligence. There are lots of good tips. Not all apply to everyone. Do what works for you.

Cheers.

Adam1222

Actually, my post was quite on-topic. The thread is about events. Not about you.
As I said several posts ago, no one is saying everyone involved in every event is a shyster. The fact that you may not be a shyster doesn't mean others aren't, and if there is a miles and points event that connects itself to an inherently predatory business, I feel comfortable raising it in a thread about miles and points events being predatory, thanks.

but if you want a gold star, you can have one.

GUWonder

When a casino loyalty program forum idea was first being discussed as part of FT, I was a skeptic if it really made sense for FT. But as with lawful reading material, so with lawful events: if it's not my things, it's not my thing. And just as with lawful reading material, so with lawful events: censorship/banning of speech/expression isn't my thing.

Perhaps in the interest of the "greater good" and a personal disinterest in such programs, ban those forums and events that discuss such programs? That wouldn't be my idea, but it seems like an idea believed of those who fancy the "benevolent dictator" model. Was that "questionable" forum created before or after IB took control of FT?

baccarat_king

I believe that forum was created before IB took over. It was quite a long time ago. I was quite involved in the TalkBoard conversations. My major point back then (this is from memory, I have no time to research and qualify my comments from years ago) was that Total Rewards and Mlife (was not Mlife back then) are two of the largest points-based loyalty programs in the world. Not to mention, two huge hotel companies. I just did not see how one could IGNORE these programs and offer forums about much more niche and smaller programs in the realm of miles+points.

Oh, and full disclosure, ZorkFest is my personal passion project. I stand behind the concept and event personally. If you want my personal story, and background that can be found HERE. (this link is to my website, I could cut&paste my entire background and story instead, but it would just fill up the entire feed). I try to operate with quite a bit of transparency. ZorkFest is not a charity event. It is NOT a not for profit. The tickets FINAL PRICE (with Early Booking Discount and Promo Code) = $115. I thought about starting a thread here and refrained. I just don't need to do the self-promotion. But, since someone brought it up, I thought it was wise to make my affiliation 100% clear. So, if someone has a "gripe" or an "issue" I readily answer emails, WhatsApp messages, private messages and phone calls.

I have continuously contributed to the FlyerTalk community since 2005. I have never been "banned" or "suspended." (now, I am totally in trouble... since I said that) I have tried my best to respond logically and honestly most of the time whenever I post in a thread (hey, I'm not perfect, after-all).

Adam1222

My local crack dealer has a loyalty program. How could I possibly ignore that?


As for the strawman arguments about censorship, the only people saying people shouldn't talk about things are the people insisting it's wrong to comment about the predatory nature of the casino industry when "not not for profits" tie their miles and points events to gambling. Perhaps under the benevolent dictator model we should prohibit people from making critical points about for profit entities that make money off of the vulnerable.

This thread, not created by me, was entitled events exist only to make money off the innocent. That term applies to casinos and their loyalty programs. If you don't like that, don't read this thread rather than ranting about censorship or how noble you are.

baccarat_king

I'm perplexed where I stated I encouraged censorship or even eluded to being noble. Transparent, yes.

GUWonder

How do you know that your local crack dealer has a loyalty program? It certainly seems to have nothing to do with lawful loyalty-programs and a legal market, which may explain why I don't exatly know what the crack dealer's "loyalty program" has to do with the miles/points loyalty programs.

Then again, this wouldn't be the first time that some have referred to airline/hotel loyalty programs as a form of airline/hotel-peddled crack cocaine; nor would it be the first time that some have referred to airlines/hotels being hooked to fleecing customers as being a form of crack cocaine addiction by airline/hotel management.