Last edit by: The Deal Mommy
Future Scheduled Events
Past Events
- F2B CHS sessions September 6, 2013
- FTU SEA - April 25-27, 2014
- #milemadness Seminars
- FTU Advanced CHI - July 18-20, 2014
- Ann Arbor Art Fair DO 10 (DTW) - July 19-20, 2014
- Family Travel for Real Life - 23 August 2014
- Frugal Travel Guy Rookie Bootcamp - Sept 20th - Savannah, GA
- FTU Advanced CHI - September 26-28, 2014
- Chicago Seminars 2014 - October 17-19, 2014
- #westcoastDO Milemadness Phoenix November 8, 2014
- FTU AMS - November 20-22, 2014
- FTU/FTU Advanced WAS - December 5-7, 2014
Mile and Point conferences--which is best and why?
#166
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,308
I am in Vienna tonight on MEGA-DO8 and, having had dinner with the organisers, I promise you that - whatever anyone may make out of it - it would be nowhere near enough for me to get involved!
Look at the schedule these guys have put together, including chartering aircraft, organising a DO&CO food plant tour, organising an Austrian technical base tour, taking over the VIP terminal at the airport for a party, putting together a day of events with Brussels, arranging a day of events with Hyatt in Mallorca and you can work out in 5 minutes that a) there is very little change from the sign-up fees and b) if there is any, the team - and it's a big team - has earned it.
Look at the schedule these guys have put together, including chartering aircraft, organising a DO&CO food plant tour, organising an Austrian technical base tour, taking over the VIP terminal at the airport for a party, putting together a day of events with Brussels, arranging a day of events with Hyatt in Mallorca and you can work out in 5 minutes that a) there is very little change from the sign-up fees and b) if there is any, the team - and it's a big team - has earned it.
#167
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
I think that is a MUCH better idea than continually falling back on the charity-raising aspect of the event.
Unlike other seminars, the Chicago one IS still run (entirely?) by community volunteers rather than by a concern with paid staff. That's a huge market differentiation point!
But my larger soap box point is that the event exists to teach people how to game the system, taught by people many of whom make a living off of gaming the system. As crass as that may sound, that's what it is. It's not a charity event. Not as crude as calling it 'hacking,' which was a stupid thing to call it, but that's what it is.
<shrug>
Unlike other seminars, the Chicago one IS still run (entirely?) by community volunteers rather than by a concern with paid staff. That's a huge market differentiation point!
But my larger soap box point is that the event exists to teach people how to game the system, taught by people many of whom make a living off of gaming the system. As crass as that may sound, that's what it is. It's not a charity event. Not as crude as calling it 'hacking,' which was a stupid thing to call it, but that's what it is.
<shrug>
Will you or continue to spout against blogs and bloggers ...it is nothing but old fashioned whining...Forgot the saying " those who know how to do, DO, others sit back and pontificate.
I challenge you to start a blog where people can benefit from your knowledge and none of the writers get any benefit !
#168
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,308
Isn't it time to put your money where your mouth is ? Howieeee has invited you to make suggestions.
Will you or continue to spout against blogs and bloggers ...it is nothing but old fashioned whining...Forgot the saying " those who know how to do, DO, others sit back and pontificate.
I challenge you to start a blog where people can benefit from your knowledge and none of the writers get any benefit !
Will you or continue to spout against blogs and bloggers ...it is nothing but old fashioned whining...Forgot the saying " those who know how to do, DO, others sit back and pontificate.
I challenge you to start a blog where people can benefit from your knowledge and none of the writers get any benefit !
Hence, all restaurant critics who arent chefs are whiners, all movie critics who aren't Spielberg are just "sitting back," and no one is allowed to have a critical opinion on the products they consume unless they are a direct competitor.
This is even more nonsensical when inherent in the critique is that there are way too many blogs and events already, and that the proliferation has had the effect of diluting the few good ones out there.
#169
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
So there has been a huge proliferation of choices in the miles/points blog and event spheres and that's a bad thing? Go figure, but that's not the problem. The problem in that regard, if there is one, is that consumers aren't necessarily making the best judgments in how the consumers' money/time is spent. But part of freedom for consumers is the freedom to make lawful spending (money and/or time) choices that may even be perceived as sub-optimal by some/others.
Last edited by GUWonder; Sep 20, 2017 at 5:33 am
#170
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,308
So there has been a huge proliferation of choices in the miles/points blog and event spheres and that's a bad thing? Go figure, but that's not the problem. The problem in that regard, if there is one, is that consumers aren't necessarily making the best judgments in how the consumers' money/time is spent. But part of freedom for consumers is the freedom to make lawful spending (money and/or time) choices that may even be perceived as sub-optimal by some/others.
(Of course, consumer choice under the theory you apply assumes information symmetry and open disclosures.)
The sky is blue. Can't wait to hear you tell me I'm wrong about that!
#171
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
No, my post doesn't assume what is claimed in the quote above. Consumer freedom means that sub-optimal outcomes are often a realistic possibility, and that may be in part due to informational asymmetry.
#172
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,308
Consumer choice theory, though, is a term of art which you are not free to define.
If your position is that is perfectly fine for travel bloggers and others to take advantage of information assymetry and customers who don't know better, it would seem you are in agreement with the premise of this thread.
I.e., your defense of bloggers and event organizers isn't that they are not taking advantage of consumers, but that they are and it's consumers/readers fault for being not knowledgeable about the conflicts of interest and marketing tactics involved. At the same time, if anyone comes on here and points out those conflicts and tactics, you attack them. So you seem to not want anyone to learn about the conflicts and tactics.
Does your theory of consumer freedom also apply to airlines and hotels? I.e., they can do whatever they want and should not be subject to criticism because consumers should know better? That would seem to shut down most threads on flyertalk.
But perhaps I'm just being greedy expecting intellectual honesty and consistency.
#173
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,585
Will you or continue to spout against blogs and bloggers ...it is nothing but old fashioned whining...Forgot the saying " those who know how to do, DO, others sit back and pontificate.
I challenge you to start a blog where people can benefit from your knowledge and none of the writers get any benefit !
I challenge you to start a blog where people can benefit from your knowledge and none of the writers get any benefit !
Here's a sample: the getting premium cabin game has changed...it's not about status, points and miles anymore - it's about discounted premium and TOD upgrades. You're welcome. @:-)
And BTW, your analogy is quite flawed. The old saw is 'Those who cannot do teach.' And you invoke it in an assertion that I don't teach. See how that's kind of ironic???
#174
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
Ah the good old "no criticism is valid unless you are actually doing it better" trope.
Hence, all restaurant critics who arent chefs are whiners, all movie critics who aren't Spielberg are just "sitting back," and no one is allowed to have a critical opinion on the products they consume unless they are a direct competitor.
This is even more nonsensical when inherent in the critique is that there are way too many blogs and events already, and that the proliferation has had the effect of diluting the few good ones out there.
Hence, all restaurant critics who arent chefs are whiners, all movie critics who aren't Spielberg are just "sitting back," and no one is allowed to have a critical opinion on the products they consume unless they are a direct competitor.
This is even more nonsensical when inherent in the critique is that there are way too many blogs and events already, and that the proliferation has had the effect of diluting the few good ones out there.
You can have all the opinions you want, proof of how valid they are is the currency oit begets.
Perhaps you want to present the arguments to all the bloggers and see how many close down ? We will leave the nonsensical remark to see how many agree with it. By the way it is always other;s opinions or arguments nonsensical ?
#175
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,308
Too many blogs ? That is why you two cannot start another one ? Po' babies, one assumes Americans would not have a choice of hundreds of anything ( cars, truck., clothes, appliances...) if you ruled the world.
You can have all the opinions you want, proof of how valid they are is the currency oit begets.
Perhaps you want to present the arguments to all the bloggers and see how many close down ? We will leave the nonsensical remark to see how many agree with it. By the way it is always other;s opinions or arguments nonsensical ?
You can have all the opinions you want, proof of how valid they are is the currency oit begets.
Perhaps you want to present the arguments to all the bloggers and see how many close down ? We will leave the nonsensical remark to see how many agree with it. By the way it is always other;s opinions or arguments nonsensical ?
I didn't say anyone should be prohibited from starting a blog so long as it is honest and meets disclosure requirements. (Yes, companies that don't abide by minimal standards of truthful conduct should not be allowed to continue to deceive. I will stand by that.) I stated that it is not a meaningful retort to the argument that there has been a proliferation of low-quality blogs is "Oh yeah, go start your own blog or shut up."
The main reason not to start a blog these days is there isn't a need for any more. There isn't a niche that I see to be unfilled. And for the most part, new blogs recycle the same information on others -- or worse, introduce demonstrably incorrect information.
Thus, it's not that Americans shouldn't have a "choice" in blogs. It's that after 200, there is diminishing marginal utility to "choice" presented bynumber 201, 202, etc., (and diminished demand as well) This applies to all of the other industries you describe as well. (Although most have much greater barriers to entry, as well.)
As for your "see how many blogs close down," as luck would have it, George of TBB has actually dug into this question. MMS has featured interviews related to 296 blogs in the past 6 years. 35% of those blogs are completely out of operation. Another 30% are not regularly updated. And these were the blogs deemed "successful" enough to be featured on a credit card marketing website. http://travelbloggerbuzz.com/a-deep-...ts-blog-space/
It's fascinating to me to see this new argument that defends the proliferation of the community with low quality blogs as promoting choice. I guess know one should have criticized the Ford Pinto and just let people keep choosing it unless they themselves were willing to make a subcompact car.
Last edited by Adam1222; Sep 20, 2017 at 5:31 pm
#176
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Alternate take: Those were people hoping for a shot of publicity and willing to provide the same in return. MMS needed easy/free content and the inbound links that oft accompanied the stories were good for business. And no one really cares about the content of the answers.
#177
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,308
Alternate take: Those were people hoping for a shot of publicity and willing to provide the same in return. MMS needed easy/free content and the inbound links that oft accompanied the stories were good for business. And no one really cares about the content of the answers.
#178
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,095
Other than my gas/tolls & hotel room being covered by the event, I don't get any financial gain from the event. I don't own or contribute to a blog. I don't even do MS & have very few credit cards; a lot of my points are from my derriere actually being in a hotel bed or airline seat).
Other than the Marriott breakout session that I moderate (do not work for Marriott & no compensation from them; just a Marriott elite) I've yet to make it to any of the sessions because I'm busy selling raffle tickets from the time I arrive mid-day Friday up to the time of giving out the prizes mid-morning Sunday, from very early morning 7am until very late at night 1am.
I've basically lost my voice by the end of the weekend & am exhausted, but it's worth it because I'm at a conference w/ a lot of like-minded travelers, enjoy the energy from chatting w/ people I know (a bit like a class reunion) & meeting new folk, introducing people to each other & giving some advice on how not to be overwhelmed by all the info being tossed at them, and knowing that we're contributing to 3 good charities each year.
Now, if someone would like to buy me a drink (or throat lozenges!) at this year's seminar & if that's considered financial gain, I'd accept & the heck w/ the ethics of booze/meds as payment
Cheers.
Other than the Marriott breakout session that I moderate (do not work for Marriott & no compensation from them; just a Marriott elite) I've yet to make it to any of the sessions because I'm busy selling raffle tickets from the time I arrive mid-day Friday up to the time of giving out the prizes mid-morning Sunday, from very early morning 7am until very late at night 1am.
I've basically lost my voice by the end of the weekend & am exhausted, but it's worth it because I'm at a conference w/ a lot of like-minded travelers, enjoy the energy from chatting w/ people I know (a bit like a class reunion) & meeting new folk, introducing people to each other & giving some advice on how not to be overwhelmed by all the info being tossed at them, and knowing that we're contributing to 3 good charities each year.
Now, if someone would like to buy me a drink (or throat lozenges!) at this year's seminar & if that's considered financial gain, I'd accept & the heck w/ the ethics of booze/meds as payment
Cheers.
#179
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,308
With the advent of Zorkfest, it appears no one is even pretending this industry isn't predatory anymore - merging "miles and points" and casino tips.
There is no more predatory an industry than casinos.
You will not get rich of gambling.
Gambling addictions are serious.
Shame on anyone in this community who participates.
There is no more predatory an industry than casinos.
You will not get rich of gambling.
Gambling addictions are serious.
Shame on anyone in this community who participates.
#180
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
With the advent of Zorkfest, it appears no one is even pretending this industry isn't predatory anymore - merging "miles and points" and casino tips.
There is no more predatory an industry than casinos.
You will not get rich of gambling.
Gambling addictions are serious.
Shame on anyone in this community who participates.
There is no more predatory an industry than casinos.
You will not get rich of gambling.
Gambling addictions are serious.
Shame on anyone in this community who participates.
“Gaming Loyalty Programs” has been a forum on FT for several years,