Alaska confirms: 'travel hackers' killed their Emirates Offerings
Apr 1, 2016, 7:55 pm
#46
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,585
To continue the blame-shifting game started by Alaska, here's Ben (trying to) shift the blame: http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...ruining-deals/
An AIRLINE. Allowing SUPPLY and DEMAND algorithms. To determine....price?
Wait a minute.
WAAAAAAAH! Miles are DIFFERENT!!!!!!
Because.....um.....
Apr 1, 2016, 10:54 pm
#47
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: Currently: UA 1K | Previously: AS MVPG75K, SPG Gold, Kimpton IC, HH Gold
Posts: 144
Aw. Looks like Lucky is feeling guilty and feels the need to deflect blame. Poor kid. Sorry, strike that. RICH kid.
Wait...DYNAMIC pricing for awards!!?? That is RIDICULOUS! Allowing supply and demand algorithms to determine price!?
An AIRLINE. Allowing SUPPLY and DEMAND algorithms. To determine....price?
Wait a minute.
WAAAAAAAH! Miles are DIFFERENT!!!!!!
Because.....um.....
Wait...DYNAMIC pricing for awards!!?? That is RIDICULOUS! Allowing supply and demand algorithms to determine price!?
An AIRLINE. Allowing SUPPLY and DEMAND algorithms. To determine....price?
Wait a minute.
WAAAAAAAH! Miles are DIFFERENT!!!!!!
Because.....um.....
Apr 1, 2016, 11:08 pm
#48
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,369
Very interesting all around. It was AS who established their redemption levels, and Alaska acknowledges that they have always known this to be "below-market levels"...or an "exceptionally good deal" depending on which sentence you read. In general I think it's poor form to blame consumers for using a system that the company has established - no one forced AS to set up those redemption levels to begin with.
That said, however, the lifespan of "exceptionally good deals" seems to often be inversely related to the amount of publicity received...particularly publicity that appears to be bragging or similar. Someone at the company (or US Mint) will want to cut their losses or will be embarrassed and feel compelled to take action.
In this day and age it's hard to keep the lid on anything, so it's unrealistic to somehow hope that no one talks about Fight Club. Enjoy it while you can because deals come and go faster than ever. But I also find it silly that some of the same bloggers complaining were the ones helping to publicize the exceptionally good deal. Can't have your cake and eat it, too.
As for Alaska's implication that they wish they could have given advance notice but were somehow suddenly forced to take action on 31 March 2016, well of course that is bogus. It seems that they did this on purpose to send a message to those that they see as abusers of the system.
That said, however, the lifespan of "exceptionally good deals" seems to often be inversely related to the amount of publicity received...particularly publicity that appears to be bragging or similar. Someone at the company (or US Mint) will want to cut their losses or will be embarrassed and feel compelled to take action.
In this day and age it's hard to keep the lid on anything, so it's unrealistic to somehow hope that no one talks about Fight Club. Enjoy it while you can because deals come and go faster than ever. But I also find it silly that some of the same bloggers complaining were the ones helping to publicize the exceptionally good deal. Can't have your cake and eat it, too.
As for Alaska's implication that they wish they could have given advance notice but were somehow suddenly forced to take action on 31 March 2016, well of course that is bogus. It seems that they did this on purpose to send a message to those that they see as abusers of the system.
Last edited by MSPeconomist; Apr 1, 2016 at 11:23 pm Reason: typo
Apr 2, 2016, 12:43 am
#49
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North America
Posts: 2,265
Cheers to another idiotic blogger: http://pointmetotheplane.boardingare...emption-rates/
why would this person publicize this super ultra-rare exception
why would this person publicize this super ultra-rare exception
Apr 2, 2016, 12:49 am
#50
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,423
Cheers to another idiotic blogger: http://pointmetotheplane.boardingare...emption-rates/
why would this person publicize this super ultra-rare exception
why would this person publicize this super ultra-rare exception
Apr 2, 2016, 2:50 am
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
Aw. Looks like Lucky is feeling guilty and feels the need to deflect blame. Poor kid. Sorry, strike that. RICH kid.
Wait...DYNAMIC pricing for awards!!?? That is RIDICULOUS! Allowing supply and demand algorithms to determine price!?
An AIRLINE. Allowing SUPPLY and DEMAND algorithms. To determine....price?
Wait a minute.
WAAAAAAAH! Miles are DIFFERENT!!!!!!
Because.....um.....
Wait...DYNAMIC pricing for awards!!?? That is RIDICULOUS! Allowing supply and demand algorithms to determine price!?
An AIRLINE. Allowing SUPPLY and DEMAND algorithms. To determine....price?
Wait a minute.
WAAAAAAAH! Miles are DIFFERENT!!!!!!
Because.....um.....
This is why revenue based redemption is stupid.
Lets imagine well-timed flight A is $200 and badly timed flight B is $125. Under revenue based redemption, many people will still choose flight A and fill seats which could have been sold for real cash.
Under the current system, you simply make no seats available for flight A and push people onto flight B to fill seats that would otherwise be unsold.
Unless revenue based redemptions are also capacity controlled they will displace cash paying customers - which benefits no-one. Similarly, those empty J seats will remain empty when a revenue based redemption is 10 x the miles of a Y redemption - which simply pushes more pax into Y where the seats would sell.
Apr 2, 2016, 3:35 am
#52
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
VFTW says something akin to devaluations propel forward devaluations. And there may be something to that, perhaps even more so with regard to revenue-based-earning-revenue-based-spend programs. No less so when the program units of publicly-traded companies are also under pressure to not only boost profits but also to boost profit margins.
As I've indicated years ago even, program management's drive to boost not only profits but also margins drives forward devaluations too. DL is a case in point of that (and also of having had to foreign lawyer up due to international legal exposure from its program operations).
As I've indicated years ago even, program management's drive to boost not only profits but also margins drives forward devaluations too. DL is a case in point of that (and also of having had to foreign lawyer up due to international legal exposure from its program operations).
Apr 2, 2016, 5:59 am
#53
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Programs: Airline Free Agent, Fairmont Lifetime Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 3,041
As far as I know (which is obviously not much), Bank of America did not have affiliate links for the Alaska Airline cards. But of course repeatedly posting about the Emirates experience continues building the "expert" brand and of course leading to page views/conversions---->money! If Alaska Airlines paid commissions, it would have ended a long time ago! Am I wrong here? This credit card industry is not the most transparent environment!
Alaska Airlines did the right thing here for their company and its shareholders. All the .....ing&moaning is hilarious.They did it simply because they can. It was a bit weird seeing AS's Andre on Twitter responding to tweets though...
As another poster made a comment a few pages ago upthread, this little community is just not that little anymore. This hobby has made leaps & bounds into the mainstream (TPGTV anyone?) and therefore the expected response of tightening up avenues to limit these crazy hackers. While the commercial blogs keep increasing the reach into the lucrative target of people who never had a CSP card before.
It's been a good ride, our best days are behind us. Enjoy it and get your tickets now to FTU to listen to these guys...it is going to be FUN!
https://twitter.com/FlyerTalkerinA2/...23536301391872
Alaska Airlines did the right thing here for their company and its shareholders. All the .....ing&moaning is hilarious.They did it simply because they can. It was a bit weird seeing AS's Andre on Twitter responding to tweets though...
As another poster made a comment a few pages ago upthread, this little community is just not that little anymore. This hobby has made leaps & bounds into the mainstream (TPGTV anyone?) and therefore the expected response of tightening up avenues to limit these crazy hackers. While the commercial blogs keep increasing the reach into the lucrative target of people who never had a CSP card before.
It's been a good ride, our best days are behind us. Enjoy it and get your tickets now to FTU to listen to these guys...it is going to be FUN!
https://twitter.com/FlyerTalkerinA2/...23536301391872
Apr 2, 2016, 6:18 am
#54
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Only slightly. As the points are converting more and more to a currency with specific valuation - even in the traditional programs which are not revenue-based to consumers yet - it becomes a matter of points = money to the airline and they sell seats for points if enough points are being redeemed to cover the internal price point set for such. Inventory comes and goes as much based on revenue fares as anything else.
Apr 2, 2016, 8:20 am
#55
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: Jeff is Deaf
Posts: 541
As far as I know (which is obviously not much), Bank of America did not have affiliate links for the Alaska Airline cards. But of course repeatedly posting about the Emirates experience continues building the "expert" brand and of course leading to page views/conversions---->money! If Alaska Airlines paid commissions, it would have ended a long time ago! Am I wrong here? This credit card industry is not the most transparent environment!
Alaska Airlines did the right thing here for their company and its shareholders. All the .....ing&moaning is hilarious.They did it simply because they can. It was a bit weird seeing AS's Andre on Twitter responding to tweets though...
As another poster made a comment a few pages ago upthread, this little community is just not that little anymore. This hobby has made leaps & bounds into the mainstream (TPGTV anyone?) and therefore the expected response of tightening up avenues to limit these crazy hackers. While the commercial blogs keep increasing the reach into the lucrative target of people who never had a CSP card before.
It's been a good ride, our best days are behind us. Enjoy it and get your tickets now to FTU to listen to these guys...it is going to be FUN!
https://twitter.com/FlyerTalkerinA2/...23536301391872
Alaska Airlines did the right thing here for their company and its shareholders. All the .....ing&moaning is hilarious.They did it simply because they can. It was a bit weird seeing AS's Andre on Twitter responding to tweets though...
As another poster made a comment a few pages ago upthread, this little community is just not that little anymore. This hobby has made leaps & bounds into the mainstream (TPGTV anyone?) and therefore the expected response of tightening up avenues to limit these crazy hackers. While the commercial blogs keep increasing the reach into the lucrative target of people who never had a CSP card before.
It's been a good ride, our best days are behind us. Enjoy it and get your tickets now to FTU to listen to these guys...it is going to be FUN!
https://twitter.com/FlyerTalkerinA2/...23536301391872
Apr 2, 2016, 8:38 am
#56
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
And UA, SPG, Hyatt, IHG, Amtrak, WN, VS, KL/AF, Hilton, Club Carlson, Choice and probably a few others.
Apr 2, 2016, 8:49 am
#57
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Programs: Airline Free Agent, Fairmont Lifetime Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 3,041
Wow...the things you learn every day in this "hobby"...
I have never bought any miles/points. Posting about it while making money from readers buying them (which, cough, may have something to do with devaluations) makes me angry
Of course it makes sense if someone has a specific trip in mind, can save money by buying them, AND pulls the trigger on booking the award right away....But buying to bank them for later use never made any sense to me...oh wait, encouraging readers to buy them and earn a commission when they do...smh...It's all about the hobby...
I have never bought any miles/points. Posting about it while making money from readers buying them (which, cough, may have something to do with devaluations) makes me angry
Of course it makes sense if someone has a specific trip in mind, can save money by buying them, AND pulls the trigger on booking the award right away....But buying to bank them for later use never made any sense to me...oh wait, encouraging readers to buy them and earn a commission when they do...smh...It's all about the hobby...
Apr 2, 2016, 9:04 am
#58
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Do they have a way to get cash-back from all points.com transactions made by others? Is it more than 2.5% of the purchase amount?
Apr 2, 2016, 9:18 am
#59
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
I believe that the T&Cs say I cannot disclose the commission rates without losing mine. And that's part of my business I'm not willing to give up. The rates may also vary depending on which affiliate portal one uses so I wouldn't want to offer data which might be inaccurate for what others are using.
Apr 2, 2016, 9:23 am
#60
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
The list I provided above all is via Points.com but is likely not comprehensive. I stopped listing after skimming the first page of the links. I do not know if other transactions also earn commissions after the click or if it only applies to specific products linked in to.
I believe that the T&Cs say I cannot disclose the commission rates without losing mine. And that's part of my business I'm not willing to give up. The rates may also vary depending on which affiliate portal one uses so I wouldn't want to offer data which might be inaccurate for what others are using.
I believe that the T&Cs say I cannot disclose the commission rates without losing mine. And that's part of my business I'm not willing to give up. The rates may also vary depending on which affiliate portal one uses so I wouldn't want to offer data which might be inaccurate for what others are using.
And those award booking services help people buy points too? Interesting how this works.
