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Why engage with the Perez Hilton Forum? [split off from VFTW discussion thread]

Why engage with the Perez Hilton Forum? [split off from VFTW discussion thread]

Old Jul 16, 15, 12:28 am
  #1  
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Why engage with the Perez Hilton Forum? [split off from VFTW discussion thread]

Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Gary does not post on FlyerTalk anymore (although he reads it, including this forum, very regularly).
Can't imagine why.

Oh, no, wait, I can.

If I wanted to have snarky conversations with strangers who don't really like me, what I write about, how I write about it, or my taste in pajamas, I might as well do it on my own blog/websites.

Seems to apply to Lucky, too. Why bother engaging with the FT Perez Hilton Forum? Yeah, they're former FTers, but the gloves are off now (despite whatever protestations of "let's not be personal" existed to the contrary at the beginning, any limits are long gone now- we're now discussing pajamas, sex lives and where people own property).

I see it all as a win-win, though. You get your own corner of the Internet, and they get theirs, and IB gets their page impressions.

Last edited by eponymous_coward; Jul 16, 15 at 12:33 am
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Old Jul 16, 15, 12:53 am
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What is strange is that they both highlight/trump the FT talkboard factoid in their bios.
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Old Jul 16, 15, 1:38 am
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ec, they stopped posting anywhere on FT years before this forum was created. And for what it's worth I like both of them.
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Old Jul 16, 15, 8:07 am
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Can't imagine why.

Oh, no, wait, I can.

If I wanted to have snarky conversations with strangers who don't really like me, what I write about, how I write about it, or my taste in pajamas, I might as well do it on my own blog/websites.

Seems to apply to Lucky, too. Why bother engaging with the FT Perez Hilton Forum? Yeah, they're former FTers, but the gloves are off now (despite whatever protestations of "let's not be personal" existed to the contrary at the beginning, any limits are long gone now- we're now discussing pajamas, sex lives and where people own property).

I see it all as a win-win, though. You get your own corner of the Internet, and they get theirs, and IB gets their page impressions.


Well stated. There is ZERO upside to them posting here as the general sentiment about them and their content is pretty snarky.
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Old Jul 16, 15, 8:52 am
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Can't imagine why.

Oh, no, wait, I can.

If I wanted to have snarky conversations with strangers who don't really like me, what I write about, how I write about it, or my taste in pajamas, I might as well do it on my own blog/websites.

Seems to apply to Lucky, too. Why bother engaging with the FT Perez Hilton Forum? Yeah, they're former FTers, but the gloves are off now (despite whatever protestations of "let's not be personal" existed to the contrary at the beginning, any limits are long gone now- we're now discussing pajamas, sex lives and where people own property).

I see it all as a win-win, though. You get your own corner of the Internet, and they get theirs, and IB gets their page impressions.
I don't think kokonutz was referring to just this forum in particular - there is a whole FlyerTalk out there; that's what I had in mind anyway. There is no need to avoid the whole site if one doesn't care for a particular forum. There are certainly forums I avoid on here.

Actually Gary trailed off in his activity generally around the time when he went off to help start MilePoint. As a competing business venture, it's not surprising he'd focus on visiting and referring to MP instead.

As to the items you mention about OMAAT, those are all points that Ben himself disclosed through the RS article. It seems odd to think they are somehow off limits to discuss when he made them public fodder.

Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
What is strange is that they both highlight/trump the FT talkboard factoid in their bios.
Indeed. They got what they needed from FT and it's no longer a value to them, so no need to contribute any value to FT it seems.
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Old Jul 16, 15, 9:41 am
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Well, apparently EC wasn't clear enough for some of you.

So I'll be clear. This particular corner of Flyer Talk -- and by that I mean here plus the OMAAT forum -- has really become more than slightly nasty, personal and unhelpful.

Yeah, I get it. It's ok if it's in Rolling Stone so why not here?

Fine. So now here's something I'd respectfully ask all of you to get: this isn't Rolling Stone. It's just not. And it never will be. Some of you might be thinking, "Well, that's too bad"; others, "Thank goodness!"

Either way, the answer is still the same. This isn't Rolling Stone.

(Full disclosure: I've never met Ben or Gary; I'm not friends with them; and I rather seriously doubt I'd ever want to be.)
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Old Jul 16, 15, 10:57 am
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In my experience, FT remains a valuable source of blog traffic. More importantly, it remains a source of high quality traffic (as opposed to someone who finds my site because they are googling something quite random that has nothing to do with frequent flyer schemes).

Any FT reader is a potential regular reader for a frequent flyer blog, after all.

Any blogger who reduces their FT participation because they have their own site is making a mistake in my view.
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Old Jul 16, 15, 11:03 am
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
What is strange is that they both highlight/trump the FT talkboard factoid in their bios.
Indeed. And I suppose that since I have been on the TB for several years and even the VP of the TB, my FF expert CV ranks right up there with the Thought Leader's!

Originally Posted by 84fiero
I don't think kokonutz was referring to just this forum in particular - there is a whole FlyerTalk out there; that's what I had in mind anyway. There is no need to avoid the whole site if one doesn't care for a particular forum. There are certainly forums I avoid on here.
Precisely. I get why they don't want to participate here: this forum competes directly with their comments sections for page impressions. And if you look at the first few pages of this thread Gary did participate...but it never went the way he wanted.

But Gary posted what could have been a post in reply to bedleman's thread in the AA forum as a blog post instead. IOW, he had to repost the thread OP, then offer his opinion on his blog rather than simply offering his opinion on bedleman's thread.

And i get why: $$$/thought leaderyness.

And also, he is not bound by the limits of the FT TOS on his blog and he did use the occasion to take some personal shots at the OP of that AA forum thread, including disclosing lots of personal information about him...
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Old Jul 16, 15, 11:45 am
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Years ago, the blog felt like it was a blog about a hobby. And you could learn a few new tricks. But I feel like there was a specific point several months ago when it started just credit cards, copying content from other blogs, TSA, and Bloomberg-style aviation business news.

I get it: Lucky travels and lives in hotels full time, so you won't be able to compete with him on that. Ric knows more about hotel programs, has more original content, and actually makes trips that others can follow - road trips through national parks, etc. He is also getting into the credit card business. The list goes on.

So what can you do? Well, you can "leverage your brand and scale to bring your business to financial maturity". The blog not only reads more like it's from a wannabe business consultant, It actually reads like it has received the advice from a business consultant.

I don't blame Gary. I would probably do the same thing. If you can make a living consulting, speaking at conferences, and going on TV, then by all means, good for you. On the other hand, it doesn't necessarily mean you actually know anything more about the subject. You can be clueless and be in a magazine; you can be clueless, and be a consultant.

Again, it makes perfect sense for Gary. I get it. But the charm is gone, it feels less authentic, it feels like being handled, it feels like an assembly line. It's hard to be an authentic product and be the size of Olive Garden or Procter & Gamble. (Lucky will find this out soon, too, I think. Some of his guest writers' posts are embarrassingly inaccurate and some are just useless - reviewing first class on a Delta CRJ? What?!)

Anyway, not that it matters what I think. I am sure Gary will be successful in this repositioning. But I, personally, I am not interested.



Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
His 'the best x, y, z' series does feel like a repositioning. As did the 'thought leader' rebranding. And now he talks a lot bout keynote speaking at travel industry events. You may be on to something.

But at the same time he's still pumping the hell out of cards post after post.

Best of both worlds?
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Old Jul 16, 15, 1:01 pm
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Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Indeed. And I suppose that since I have been on the TB for several years and even the VP of the TB, my FF expert CV ranks right up there with the Thought Leader's!
You can be known as the Thought Leader in Bloggers
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Old Jul 16, 15, 1:11 pm
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Originally Posted by bevoinva View Post
You can be known as the Thought Leader in Bloggers
I like the way you think!

Check out my nifty new sig line!
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Old Jul 16, 15, 1:27 pm
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Or......

Kokonutz is the "Whine" Leader in the Snark Forum.

Depends on your point of view I guess
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Old Jul 16, 15, 4:21 pm
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Originally Posted by ingy View Post
Kokonutz is the "Whine" Leader in the Snark Forum.

Depends on your point of view I guess
Being The Thought Leader on points and miles blogs, etc., I accept and even embrace that some will be snarky about me like you just were. It comes with the territory.

After all, Thought Leaders know we will suffer the slings and arrows of our envious lessers.
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Old Jul 16, 15, 4:50 pm
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Originally Posted by FallenPlat View Post
Well, apparently EC wasn't clear enough for some of you.

So I'll be clear. This particular corner of Flyer Talk -- and by that I mean here plus the OMAAT forum -- has really become more than slightly nasty, personal and unhelpful.

Yeah, I get it. It's ok if it's in Rolling Stone so why not here?

Fine. So now here's something I'd respectfully ask all of you to get: this isn't Rolling Stone. It's just not. And it never will be. Some of you might be thinking, "Well, that's too bad"; others, "Thank goodness!"

Either way, the answer is still the same. This isn't Rolling Stone.

(Full disclosure: I've never met Ben or Gary; I'm not friends with them; and I rather seriously doubt I'd ever want to be.)
I guess you were directing this at me. There is no need to be snarky - my pointing out that eponymous_coward misread kokonutz's meaning, and my disagreement with EC's premise, doesn't mean I do not understand EC's post.

For one thing, as nsx noted, the dropoff in VFTW posting here came before EM&P forum ever existed. For another, as I correctly surmised, kokonutz was not commenting on the lack of VFTW participation in this forum specifically, which is what eponymous_coward was incorrectly assuming in the post.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough - nowhere did I say this is Rolling Stone nor should be. Rather, EC's implication that content on this forum violates FT rules by being unduly "personal", is misdirected. The examples EC notes are things the blogger has himself disclosed in the RS article and to an extent on his blog. These aren't made-up items, personal information dug up on an anonymous FT user, or name-calling but information voluntarily discussed by a public figure.

And despite EC pointing out the salacious items, there is a fair discussion going on about points raised by the RS article regarding OMAAT.

Originally Posted by nsx View Post
ec, they stopped posting anywhere on FT years before this forum was created. And for what it's worth I like both of them.
Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Indeed. And I suppose that since I have been on the TB for several years and even the VP of the TB, my FF expert CV ranks right up there with the Thought Leader's!

Precisely. I get why they don't want to participate here: this forum competes directly with their comments sections for page impressions. And if you look at the first few pages of this thread Gary did participate...but it never went the way he wanted.

But Gary posted what could have been a post in reply to bedleman's thread in the AA forum as a blog post instead. IOW, he had to repost the thread OP, then offer his opinion on his blog rather than simply offering his opinion on bedleman's thread.

And i get why: $$$/thought leaderyness.

And also, he is not bound by the limits of the FT TOS on his blog and he did use the occasion to take some personal shots at the OP of that AA forum thread, including disclosing lots of personal information about him...
If folks don't like the blog discussion here, I sure hope they never read the comments sections of those blogs where negative feedback and criticism is much less restrained and in many cases not even censored by the blogger. These aren't hobbyists blogging from their den in their spare time - these are for-profit commercial ventures. As with any company, if they don't expect feedback and criticism, they shouldn't be in business.

I think it's especially fair to criticize two of the most successful ventures that got where they are in large part through FT, who highlight that background in their bios, but make a point of ignoring the community now. I don't expect that either of them care, which is fine, but it is what it is.

And it's silly to think that VFTW's partnership in MilePoint doesn't factor largely into the lack of participation on FT as well. That's understandable, but certainly fair game to point out as well.

For that matter, FT members who don't find this forum useful are free to ignore it.
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Old Jul 17, 15, 2:34 am
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Originally Posted by 84fiero View Post
information voluntarily discussed by a public figure.
Really, Lucky's posted information on the property he owns on his blog?

He's posted psychiatric records?

That being said, I'm waiting for the accusations that I'm a wannabe gay lover to come up now that I said what I said.
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